Search Syntax Needed For All Occurences of Grk "Theos" without Definite Article

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2012 10:40 AM

Ergatees.

I think that the JW's are one of the most organized persuasions that I have come across. I remember a couple years back that I was in correspondence w/another about them who claim such-n-such from one of their magazines. I ask for the reference and he could not give it, but swore that’s what it said. I called Brooklyn and the person on the phone new the article and “”amazingly”” I had a copy of an outdated article at my front door by the end of the business day. Totally amazing. To which I responded to the person in correspondence that they were a quack and a liar, that I had the article in front of me and read it and they knew nothing of what they spoke…..just fyi..

[edit: sorry for the second, but thought it was relative...]

Thanks again

 

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Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 7:00 AM

Hello, R4M,

I have read your comments and thank you for your insights on this topic and also the knowledge of Logos4 which you share regarding the way to use the Morphology to find things according to their Greek structure. I invite you to write to me personally at the email I gave to Steve Adams above in this topic. I will be happy to send you information I have. Actually, over many years I have gathered a lot from many sources. I do not get much into apologetics because that is not my focus at this point in my life.

God bless!

Ergatees

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 7:57 AM

Ergatees:

Hello, R4M,

I have read your comments and thank you for your insights on this topic and also the knowledge of Logos4 which you share regarding the way to use the Morphology to find things according to their Greek structure. I invite you to write to me personally at the email I gave to Steve Adams above in this topic. I will be happy to send you information I have. Actually, over many years I have gathered a lot from many sources. I do not get much into apologetics because that is not my focus at this point in my life.

God bless!

Ergatees

Mailer-daemon.....

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 5:05 PM

Big Sorry! to R4M and to Steve Adams...

I used what is known as an alias on Yahoo and although I can sign in with it it is not a valid yahoo address and I wasn't aware of this. So, apologies all around for that. I was alerted by someone to this and I sent the pdf. I'll see if I can work up a new address on yahoo. I suppose they will let me do that so I can maintain a certain discretion here.

E.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 6:35 PM

Steve Adams:
The only outcome I was hoping to reach from my request on this forum was to establish case that the absence of the article in John 1:1 does not require that it be translated "a god". I realise that both the translation of "a god" and "God" are gramatically possible and thus the witness of the rest of Scripture concerning Jesus would determine the choice of translation.

I have been reflecting on the difficulty of constructing a search for the "absence" of a word and concluded that a function could be easily incorporated into text search  eg.   God NOTAFTER the  to return instances of God that do not immediately follow the article. There would also be terms NOTBEFORE and NOTNEAR.

Dave
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Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 5:35 AM

Hi, all, and Steve in particular,

We have a practice in our home to read God's Word daily. This morning at table we read Matthew 14:33. Interestingly, quoting from the Byzantine Majority text (which has a different word order than the ESV or Nestle text, we saw this which made me immediately think of your discussion here:

λέγοντες, Ἀληθῶς θεοῦ υἱὸς εἶ.

I would ask any Witness to explain how to translate this, and 99% of them wouldn't be able to do it..., but the point is, why not slavishly translate it, "truly, you are a son of a god"?

NWT follows the Westcott and Hort Greek text and their interlinear KIT (Kingdom Interlinear Translation) says under the Greek text: "Truthfully of God Son you are." and the running translation on the side reads: "You are really God's Son."

Actually, such discussions with JWs can become wearisome. Is it really a "rule" that you have to put an indefinite article before an anarthrous noun? No, and they don't do it either. So back to John 1:1 where in the Greek, theos en ho logos , "theos" is qualitative there and a predicate nominative and as some say, could be best understood as "What God was, the Word was." I am quoting from memory here. This may be Kenneth Wuest or else the NEB translation.

Just a point to help Steve in his musings and preparation for his writing.

Yours only by His Grace,

Ergatees

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 5:48 AM

Oops! Nestle or N27 has the same Greek word order as the Byzantine Majority text. What a surprise.

Yep, I looked at the NKJV with the interlinear and the ESV interlinear and they did not follow the same word order as the Byzantine text so I surmised they were following the Nestle text. SO, lesson learned!

I beg your pardon for not checking that before writing...

E.

Posts 277
Ergatees | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 6:34 AM

Whoa... lol Stick out tongue

I see that nasty "Mailer-daemon..."

Okay, okay, I have created another email account so I can mail out the article I have on my computer in pdf format which is a full discussion of John 1:1 and about which I told you and Steve Adams .

If you wish to get it write to ezjwpubs at cfl.rr.com and let me know and I'll be happy to mail it to you.

Yours in our dear Saviour,

Ergatees

Posts 582
Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 12:46 PM

Dave Hooton:
I have been reflecting on the difficulty of constructing a search for the "absence" of a word and concluded that a function could be easily incorporated into text search  eg.   God NOTAFTER the  to return instances of God that do not immediately follow the article. There would also be terms NOTBEFORE and NOTNEAR.

Doesn't a search string such as -- God ANDNOT "the God" find these? Or, are you trying to get around the fact that my search string will not return a verse which has both 'God' and 'the God' in it?

 

πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 7:14 PM

Gary O'Neal:

Dave Hooton:
I have been reflecting on the difficulty of constructing a search for the "absence" of a word and concluded that a function could be easily incorporated into text search  eg.   God NOTAFTER the  to return instances of God that do not immediately follow the article. There would also be terms NOTBEFORE and NOTNEAR.

Doesn't a search string such as -- God ANDNOT "the God" find these? Or, are you trying to get around the fact that my search string will not return a verse which has both 'God' and 'the God' in it?

God ANDNOT "the God"  will exclude Jn 1:1 where God appears twice --> "the God" followed by "and God" (in the Greek).  It is logically correct because both terms (God  + "the God") appear in the verse but we want a query that would include "and God"!  So it needs to specify any instance of God except those that immediately follow the article; hence  God NOTAFTER  the.

Dave
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Posts 1
Jim Trimble | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2019 2:37 PM

One of my seminary professors wrote his doctoral dissertation on the this topic.  He concluded that theos without the definite article was qualitative and spoke of toe Word having God's character or essence.  I like the way the NET bible translates John 1:1.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.

Posts 1
Romualdo De Ocampo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 28 2019 9:26 PM

Yes i am interested for the electronic copy of your booklet. TIA

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