When I type in notes... they response is delayed and slow... is this normal?

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Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, May 31 2012 6:47 AM

I get a very delayed response in Logos when I am typing in notes.  Is this normal?  Are there any settings to speed this up?  Is there any way to do my notes in Word and then just cut paste in without losing the formatting?

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:00 AM

Robert Iversen:
I get a very delayed response in Logos when I am typing in notes.  Is this normal? 
Very normal
Robert Iversen:
Are there any settings to speed this up? 
set the setting to use the internet to off speeds up L4 overall.
Robert Iversen:
Is there any way to do my notes in Word and then just cut paste in without losing the formatting?
Sometimes.  L4 does strip out some of the formatting, but I never paid that close attention to it.  I still use L3 for my notes and then import them into L4 once every month or two.

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:21 AM

tom collinge:

Robert Iversen:
I get a very delayed response in Logos when I am typing in notes.  Is this normal? 

Very normal

Bummer... is there any plans (or have you heard of any plans) to improve this?

tom collinge:

Robert Iversen:
Are there any settings to speed this up? 

set the setting to use the internet to off speeds up L4 overall.

I am not sure I understand what off speeds means?  Maybe it is simple, but I do not know where to look.  Thank you for your patience with me.

tom collinge:

Robert Iversen:
Is there any way to do my notes in Word and then just cut paste in without losing the formatting?

Sometimes.  L4 does strip out some of the formatting, but I never paid that close attention to it.  I still use L3 for my notes and then import them into L4 once every month or two.

I am only an L4 user and do not have L3, so this is not a possibility for me.  I just like the idea of being able to view my notes on my work PC, my home Mac, and on my iPhone and iPad as I am mobile.

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:30 AM

Robert Iversen:
Bummer... is there any plans (or have you heard of any plans) to improve this?
Yes and no. There is something very wonky about the way that WPF draws on the screen during typing. There are no usable off the shelf modules which fix the problem. I have read that Logos is indeed working on speeding this up. I personally believe it is an inherent restriction in the WPF technology.

Robert Iversen:

I am not sure I understand what off speeds means?  Maybe it is simple, but I do not know where to look.  Thank you for your patience with me.

Part of the issue is that Logos is checking the internet for synching as you type. So turning off the internet will speed things up.  So....

Click TOOLS -> PROGRAM SETTINGS and then look for USE INTERNET at the bottom of the section labled "GENERAL". set it to NO.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:45 AM

Robert Iversen:
set the setting to use the internet to off speeds up L4 overall.
Set the setting (use internet) to off will speed up everything that L4 does.

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:46 AM

TCBlack:

Yes and no. There is something very wonky about the way that WPF draws on the screen during typing. There are no usable off the shelf modules which fix the problem. I have read that Logos is indeed working on speeding this up. I personally believe it is an inherent restriction in the WPF technology.

Again, sorry for my ignorance, but what is WPF?  I assume it is an acronym for something you are very familiar with?

TCBlack:

Part of the issue is that Logos is checking the internet for synching as you type. So turning off the internet will speed things up.  So....

Click TOOLS -> PROGRAM SETTINGS and then look for USE INTERNET at the bottom of the section labled "GENERAL". set it to NO.

Thanks for the help, but does this stop the whole syncing thing?  Does this mean I will not sync my stuff up?

 

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:52 AM

TCBlack:
I personally believe it is an inherent restriction in the WPF technology.
Yes and no.  I do have other programs that used WPF when they were created, and none of them have this issue.  IMHO, it is the way Logos designed L4.  For an example, every time we type something in, L4 saves it and syncs it.  If it was designed to do the saving and syncing when we clicked on the save button, it would not be saving and syncing as often - thus speed would improve.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:56 AM

Robert Iversen:
Again, sorry for my ignorance, but what is WPF?  I assume it is an acronym for something you are very familiar with?

WPF is short for Windows Presentation Foundation, and it is the software design platform Logos used to build L4.  Other companies have moved away from it, and it sounds like L5 will still be using it (too much time and money has already been spent using WPF just to tossed it away), but Logos might move away from it for L6 (Microsoft has not supported WPF as they said they would when they first created WPF, and they could be moving in a totally different direction).

Robert Iversen:
Thanks for the help, but does this stop the whole syncing thing?  Does this mean I will not sync my stuff up?
Correct, your items will not be sync'ed.

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 8:20 AM

tom collinge:

WPF is short for Windows Presentation Foundation, and it is the software design platform Logos used to build L4.  Other companies have moved away from it, and it sounds like L5 will still be using it (too much time and money has already been spent using WPF just to tossed it away), but Logos might move away from it for L6 (Microsoft has not supported WPF as they said they would when they first created WPF, and they could be moving in a totally different direction).

WPF sounds like a dated piece of technology that is not very useful from your summary.  I understand the investment, but if it is a dying technology (like Flash for the mobile market), then it should be put to rest and the new technology (whatever that may be) should be embraced.

tom collinge:

Correct, your items will not be sync'ed.

Unfortunately, this is not a good alternative.  I am very disappointed that it is one or the other.  I would like to see a push for syncing with the internet off, though.  This is probably more my wish list.  Geeked

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 8:21 AM

tom collinge:

Yes and no.  I do have other programs that used WPF when they were created, and none of them have this issue.  IMHO, it is the way Logos designed L4.  For an example, every time we type something in, L4 saves it and syncs it.  If it was designed to do the saving and syncing when we clicked on the save button, it would not be saving and syncing as often - thus speed would improve.

Why not have a setting like most applications that saves every so often in a frequency that the user can designate?

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 8:51 AM

Robert Iversen:
Why not have a setting like most applications that saves every so often in a frequency that the user can designate?

The reason: Every user configurable option increases complexity and support costs. 

I did not say I like the reason, nor did I suggest I support the reason. I gave the reason.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 9:02 AM

TCBlack:

The reason: Every user configurable option increases complexity and support costs. 

I did not say I like the reason, nor did I suggest I support the reason. I gave the reason.

This can be fixed without a user configurable option, they just need to take into account user activity in the synchronisation code. It makes no sense to synchronise notes (multiple times) while the user is typing it makes more sense to wait until the typing is complete and synchronise the complete update. 

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 9:50 AM

Graham Owen:

This can be fixed without a user configurable option, they just need to take into account user activity in the synchronisation code. It makes no sense to synchronise notes (multiple times) while the user is typing it makes more sense to wait until the typing is complete and synchronise the complete update. 

At least wait for a return keystroke before you save/sync.

 

Um...

Starting over?

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 10:40 AM

TCBlack:

Um...

Starting over?

Indeed. When I contacted sales to pre order the Revised Expositor's Upgrade via eMail something happened to my account that changed my registered eMail address to the one I used to place the order for some Logos functions. Not sure why as I have followed the same procedure for some time now quoting my registered eMail address in the text of eMails from my local Church account. It actually locked me out of the forums until I started using the "wrong" eMail address, now I seem to have two eMail addresses on my account and I'm still trying to figure out which one works where! Password is always the same though. Stupid thing is the registered eMail address is my proper personal one that I have used for YEARS and still keep especially for this kind of this, guess I should get it sorted and reset to the address that it should be.

 

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 10:40 AM

TCBlack:

I did not say I like the reason, nor did I suggest I support the reason. I gave the reason.

I am sorry if I inferred that you did.  It is my sincere hope that I did not come across strongly or rudely.  Embarrassed

I agree with the complexity but I think this is a good place for one if another solution is not available.  It was noted that an auto save feature could be used after a certain amount of inactivity, stoppage in key strokes, or hit of the return button.  Even a default setting of every 2 or 3 or 5 minutes would be good alternative to have each key stroke feel delayed due to the replication of each stroke.

Again, thank you very much for the reply and reason.  It is much appreciated!

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 10:55 AM

Robert Iversen:
Why not have a setting like most applications that saves every so often in a frequency that the user can designate?
As a former developer, I have asked the why questions many many many times when it comes with Logos.  Doing the big picture, they do a good job.  They fail to do the small things.  I have noticed that Logos is still in what I call "book mode;" they try to capture what people do with books with L4, and they forget that people do things differently when they have an actual book or if they are reading an electronic text.  For an example can be seen with notes, Bob has said over and over and over and over again that notes are designed to hold only a sentence or two.  Users have said over and over and over and over again that this is not how we want or use our electronic notes.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 10:59 AM

Robert Iversen:
I agree with the complexity but I think this is a good place for one if another solution is not available.  It was noted that an auto save feature could be used after a certain amount of inactivity, stoppage in key strokes, or hit of the return button.  Even a default setting of every 2 or 3 or 5 minutes would be good alternative to have each key stroke feel delayed due to the replication of each stroke.
or just used a daggone save button like every other program uses.

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 11:10 AM

tom collinge:
I have noticed that Logos is still in what I call "book mode;" they try to capture what people do with books with L4, and they forget that people do things differently when they have an actual book or if they are reading an electronic text.

I see your point but in this instance I suspect the problem is to do with the developer's environment, I doubt that any of the developers or in house testers ever experience what Logos is like on a slow UK Broadband connection!

It is an unfortunate truth that software tends to work really well in the environment that it is developed and tested in and that many performance issues never get fixed because the developers never see what its like in the imperfect world of the users. Great example for me was when the company I worked for switched from Notes to Exchange, suddenly eMail downloads became a real problem for me when working at home. The reason was simple Notes replication was designed to work using slow modems and performed great on UK broadband whereas Exchange expected a local lan connection and was really slow, it took Microsoft a few years to create an acceptable remote replication technique.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 12:01 PM

Robert Iversen:

TCBlack:

I did not say I like the reason, nor did I suggest I support the reason. I gave the reason.

I am sorry if I inferred that you did.  It is my sincere hope that I did not come across strongly or rudely.  Embarrassed

Not at all! There was nothing at all negative in the dialogue. I've gotten a bit gun-shy since there are some individuals who like to take something said by an MVP out of context or view it as blind support.  

So we'll just have to have a cup of Coffee and leave it at that. :-)

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 1:05 PM

tom collinge:

Users have said over and over and over and over again that this is not how we want or use our electronic notes.

AGREED!  I feel this way, as it is this tool that allows me to move between computers and devices and continue my study.  If not note, then another tool integrated.

Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert

Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1

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