BUG Indents Notes 4.5b SR-3

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Paul Gisbourne | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jun 1 2012 4:38 AM

Working on some sermon prep this morning and noticed that the indent feature of notes isn't working... click the button but nothing happens..

Have also check in L4.5c Beta 3 and indents do not work

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 1 2012 9:58 AM

Are you talking about the button that indents the whole note, or the one that indents text within the note?

The former works fine in 4.5a, but the latter does not seem to work. Looks like yet another regression, but before 4.5b this time.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 192
Paul Gisbourne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 1 2012 11:42 AM

fgh:

Are you talking about the button that indents the whole note, or the one that indents text within the note?

The former works fine in 4.5a, but the latter does not seem to work. Looks like yet another regression, but before 4.5b this time.

Yes the indent within the note, not the indent of the note!

Posts 646
Ann Boyles | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 1 2012 3:42 PM

Are you trying to indent a single note, or a list within the note? On Mac, the expected behavior is that you can indent items in a list, but not regular text within the note.

Posts 192
Paul Gisbourne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 1:18 AM

Ann Boyles:

Are you trying to indent a single note, or a list within the note? On Mac, the expected behavior is that you can indent items in a list, but not regular text within the note.

I was trying to indent some text - Is this going to be introduced? If not that is a major oversight..

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 10:13 AM

Paul Gisbourne:

Ann Boyles:

Are you trying to indent a single note, or a list within the note? On Mac, the expected behavior is that you can indent items in a list, but not regular text within the note.

I was trying to indent some text - Is this going to be introduced? If not that is a major oversight..

Confirmed text indentation works in Logos 4.5c Beta 3 on PC, but same note on Mac lacks indentation:

Added item to Feature Parity list with reference to this thread:

Keep Smiling Smile

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 11:21 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Can it actually do that on you computer? 

I tried, and I didn't succeed very well. I created a bulleted list, then I selected a line and clicked Increase. Nothing happened. Then I clicked Decrease. The line returned to normal, unbulleted, text. Then I clicked Increase again. Nothing happened.

IOW, the Increase button did nothing, while the Decrease button did exactly the same thing as if I had toggled the Bulleted List button to off (EDIT: or simply backspaced from the beginning of the line). Not very useful...

So far I have only found one single instance where the indent works: if I create a new bullet and indent it directly, before I have entered any text at all.

I guess someone expects us to always know beforehand exactly how we want the note structured. I wish life was that easy and my mind that structured...

Not sure how to use the shortcuts at all. [ is alt-8 on a Swedish keyboard, but cmd-alt-8 doesn't seem to do what cmd-[ is supposed to do.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8147
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 11:55 AM

fgh:
So far I have only found one single instance where the indent works: if I create a new bullet and indent it directly, before I have entered any text at all.

It seems I can generally enter text first, as long as I indent before I create a new bullet. 

However, the more I experiment, the more I find the whole indentation a complete mess:

  • Sometimes I've gotten bullets that were twice as big.
  • Sometimes, if I want to got from two steps indentation to three, I can't do that directly, but if I go back to one step first, I can suddenly go forward again to three.
  • Sometimes I've tried to increase the indentation of the third bullet, and instead all three bullets have moved to the left.
  • And so on...

It seems completely nuts, and I can't see any system in it at all.

(Note: I'm still at 4.5a. I've finally given up and downloaded the update, though, so I'll install later today or tomorrow. I want my CCC and encyclicals.)

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 13038
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 2 2012 12:19 PM

fgh:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Can it actually do that on you computer? 

Personally typed example outline in Notes using Logos 4.5c Beta 3 on Mac OS X 10.6.8 then highlighted lines, followed by clicking buttons for bullets, numbers, and indent:

Keep Smiling Smile

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2012 7:06 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Personally typed example outline in Notes using Logos 4.5c Beta 3 on Mac OS X 10.6.8 then highlighted lines, followed by clicking buttons for bullets, numbers, and indent:

This seems to be one of the few things that works much better in 4.5b. So far I haven't been able to reproduce any of the severe oddities above, and I even managed to indent unbulleted text on my first attempt, though I haven't managed to repeat it. 

I still see all sorts of less severe oddities, though, like 

  • selecting one line, clicking Bulleted List, and getting as the only result that the whole note text gets selected.
  • not being able to remove the bullets from several lines at once, but having to do it line by line.
  • the cursor moving to unexpected places.
  • several lines moving when I had only selected one.
  • and so on...

And I would still like to know how to use the shortcuts on a Swedish keyboard.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 646
Ann Boyles | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2012 9:24 AM

fgh:
 I still see all sorts of less severe oddities, though, like 

  • selecting one line, clicking Bulleted List, and getting as the only result that the whole note text gets selected.
  • not being able to remove the bullets from several lines at once, but having to do it line by line.
  • the cursor moving to unexpected places.
  • several lines moving when I had only selected one.
  • and so on...

fgh, I was unable to reproduce any of these issues on 4.5c Beta 3 on OS X 10.7.4. If you continue to see these, perhaps you could provide detailed reproduction steps? 

As to the question regarding shortcuts on a Swedish keyboard: apart from the [ key (and the Cmd-[ shortcut), are there any other shortcuts you are unable to use on a Swedish keyboard, and could you please list them?

As to the more general question regarding parity on the Notes indentation issue: the disparity has to do with the rich text formatting/editing capabilities on the OS itself, which differs from that of Windows. I did file a case for this, but due to the rich text handling capabilities of the OS itself, the current indent behavior is expected on the Mac.

Posts 8147
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2012 1:28 PM

Ann Boyles:
I was unable to reproduce any of these issues on 4.5c Beta 3 on OS X 10.7.4. If you continue to see these, perhaps you could provide detailed reproduction steps?

Bullets 1 and 2 above seemed consistent and are about as detailed as I can make them. As for the rest, there were too many oddities happening and too little obvious system to them for me to have the time to investigate them. Lets hope they are indeed gone in 4.5c.

Ann Boyles:
As to the question regarding shortcuts on a Swedish keyboard: apart from the [ key (and the Cmd-[ shortcut), are there any other shortcuts you are unable to use on a Swedish keyboard, and could you please list them?

Looking at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Keyboard_Shortcuts_For_Mac I notice:

  • 3 sets of shortcuts demanding [ and ] keys, none of which seems to work for me.
  • 2 Logos shortcuts demanding a / key (which I do have on the numeric keypad, but on the regular one it's shift-7). Of these
    • shift-cmd-(numeric)/ does open the Help menu, as does shift-cmd-7.
    • cmd-(numeric)/ does create a numbered list, but there doesn't seem to be any way for me to do it on the normal keyboard, as shift-cmd-7 just opens the Help again.
  • 2 shortcuts on the 'General' list that aren't 'general' over here:
    • Alt-cmd-= is alt-cmd-- for me and only works on the numeric pad, as does alt-cmd-+ (this doesn't seem to be Logos related, though).
    • Shift-cmd-/ works, as noted above, but in all my other programs the command for Help is cmd-? (or, more precisely, shift-cmd-+).

The rest look like they should work, but I don't have the time, or the free RAM, to test them all. Several of them are very irregular, though.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8147
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 6 2012 8:11 AM

Ann Boyles:
As to the more general question regarding parity on the Notes indentation issue: the disparity has to do with the rich text formatting/editing capabilities on the OS itself, which differs from that of Windows. I did file a case for this, but due to the rich text handling capabilities of the OS itself, the current indent behavior is expected on the Mac.

What exactly does this mean? I tried indenting normal text in LibreOffice yesterday, and it worked perfectly fine. Is there a particular reason the OS restricts Logos but not LibreOffice?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 5
Mac Solar Dude | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 6 2012 11:24 AM

fgh:

Ann Boyles:
As to the more general question regarding parity on the Notes indentation issue: the disparity has to do with the rich text formatting/editing capabilities on the OS itself, which differs from that of Windows. I did file a case for this, but due to the rich text handling capabilities of the OS itself, the current indent behavior is expected on the Mac.

What exactly does this mean? I tried indenting normal text in LibreOffice yesterday, and it worked perfectly fine. Is there a particular reason the OS restricts Logos but not LibreOffice?

Try it in TextEdit with rich text support turned on.  TextEdit relies on the system provided text editing and rendering classes.  If it works in TextEdit and not Logos then its a Logos problem and not an OS problem.

Posts 646
Ann Boyles | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 6 2012 2:39 PM

fgh:

What exactly does this mean? I tried indenting normal text in LibreOffice yesterday, and it worked perfectly fine. Is there a particular reason the OS restricts Logos but not LibreOffice?

According to Development, the native text editing and handling capabilities of the Mac OS are considerably more limited than those of Windows, which limits the text editing capabilities available to us in areas like Notes. I couldn't comment on LibreOffice, as I don't know how they process text.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2012 8:19 AM

Mac Solar Dude:
Try it in TextEdit with rich text support turned on.  TextEdit relies on the system provided text editing and rendering classes.  If it works in TextEdit and not Logos then its a Logos problem and not an OS problem.

It does work in TextExit

Ann Boyles:
According to Development, the native text editing and handling capabilities of the Mac OS are considerably more limited than those of Windows, which limits the text editing capabilities available to us in areas like Notes.

Microsoft uses the same excuse for not supporting Right-to-Left text in MS Office. However, other word processors—notably Mellel—can handle Hebrew very well. This is getting to be a worn-out excuse caused by Logos' wedding to things MS. 

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2012 10:10 AM

Jack Caviness:
It does work in TextExit

How did you do that? I tried to do it in TextEdit before I tried LibreOffice, but I couldn't find any way to indent anything at all, so I assumed TextEdit was simply too basic to have any indentation. Reading your post I now looked it over once more, but I still can't find it... Confused

I can, however, confirm that it also works perfectly fine to indent normal text in Thunderbird (though the spaces between the lines increase at the same time, for some odd reason).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8367
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2012 10:57 AM

fgh:
How did you do that?

Enabled Rich Text in Preferences

Don't remember where these styles came from. Looks like they may have been imported from Mellel

Then used the styles to create the indent

Upon reflection, this may not be a true test of indention. I am just tired of hearing the Mac OS blamed for failure to provide basic functionality that is present in other applications. If Logos intends to make a Mac application, they need to ditch the Microsoft-think and program a Mac application rather than attempt to port a Windows application and call it native Mac.

Posts 192
Paul Gisbourne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2012 11:49 AM

Ann Boyles:

According to Development, the native text editing and handling capabilities of the Mac OS are considerably more limited than those of Windows, which limits the text editing capabilities available to us in areas like Notes. I couldn't comment on LibreOffice, as I don't know how they process text.

If TextEdit, which comes bundled with OSX can handle text indentation, via TAB's is it not as much a limitation on the OS but a limitation with the way Logos4 is handling the notes feature?

It's not a major headache, more of an inconvenience as I resorting to indentation through using multiple spaces.

 

Doesn't this also go back to many users requests for reworking of notes to be looked at, to make the experience and usage the same across both platforms?

Posts 8147
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 7 2012 1:15 PM

Jack Caviness:
used the styles to create the indent

Ah! 

Jack Caviness:
Upon reflection, this may not be a true test of indention.

No, I don't think it is. Plus you're using a list, which works/is supposed to work in Logos as well. The issue was about indenting normal text.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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