Logos Software in Library
We are currently setting-up a library with 25 computer in it, and we want to install logos platinum software to all computers in library. It is possible to purchase one package of scholars platinum and install it in 25 computers? What else do we need? or if not possible, what would be an alternative for the library setup. Thanks.
Comments
-
Welcome, Dante.
Although Logos can be installed on numerous computers (I have an installation on my desktop, MBA and office compute) it is licensed to the individual. Consequently, although there is no issue installing Logos on multiple computers (perhaps even 25), the license does not extend to 'sharing' Logos in a library environment (assuming you are intending to allow multiple uses access to these 25 installations).
Other users have posted on the forums suggesting that Logos extend their licensing to library-type situations. I do not recall having read anything from Logos to imply that they are moving in this direction. I do expect that, were they to introduce such a licensing arrangement, the cost would be greater than the present packages. There may be some benefit in email 'suggestion@logos.com' should you wish to personally encourage Logos to consider accommodating such an arrangement.
There are practical limitations with regards to your proposal (implications for user created documents, etc.), but as the proposed arrangement appears to contravene the limitations of the license, I do not think that it would be helpful to comment further.
If I have misunderstood your intentions, apologies! If this is the case, further clarification would be gratefully received.
0 -
Thank you Andy,
If logos have a licensing arrangement to library-type situations, which cost is much greater than the present package, what would be that arrangement when it comes to licensing, I hope this is cheaper compared to purchasing a 25 package for 25 computers in the library. We are moving forward to the implementation of logos software on the library, what would be the best solution for us? Thank you.
0 -
Welcome [:D]
One consideration is license handling since every human user needs their own Logos license; related consideration is user account management on library computers along with storage so each licensed Logos user has their own account, which is not shared with others. Scholar's Platinum uses ~ 11 GB in the users folder.
Logos license agreement => http://www.logos.com/support/EULA includes:
All licenses are single human being licenses. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, library licenses or multi-user licenses.
Related thread => Licensing for University Library
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Thank you for the related thread link.
Do you know somebody who setup logos software in multiple computer on their library, that can share their experiences in setting-up and also some arrangement in licensing of logos software per unit?
0 -
Dante Infante said:
Do you know somebody who setup logos software in multiple computer on their library, that can share their experiences in setting-up and also some arrangement in licensing of logos software per unit?
As people have tried to tell you, there is no such licensing. and anyone admitting to having set up something like that would be confessing to a crime, so don't hold your breath waiting for anyone to tell you they've done it.
Even if you do buy 25 licenses for 25 computers it would still be illegal, unless each computer is used by only one single person, which seems rather unlikely in a library setting.
The only legal way to do this would be to buy as many packages as you have students using the library. One license, one user, that's it.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
fgh said:
The only legal way to do this would be to buy as many packages as you have students using the library. One license, one user, that's it.
This is obviously a completely impractical solution, as we all know your student population could be hundreds if not thousands of students.
What you may want to do is call Logos and discuss your issue. While the license scheme we all work with under here is as has been stated to you clearly and accurately, your institution is in a totally different situation. I would be shocked if Logos doesn't try to figure out a fair and appropriate way to work with you so that they get a nice sale and a new institution using Logos. Worst case call Bob Pritchett the CEO of Logos, he frequents these forums a lot and has always seemed to be a very practical customer-focused guy; or you can email him at bob@logos.com. He wants to hear from customers who are in any way impeded from using Logos, believe me.
0 -
fgh said:
The only legal way to do this would be to buy as many packages as you have students using the library. One license, one user, that's it.
Logos offers a generous Academic Discount and would be thrilled if every student got their own individual copy. [^o)] I do wonder how the seminary would feel if only one student in each class paid their tuition to attend while the other 24 got their education for free...... [:S] [C]
fwiw: Logos does have the ability to detect and locate multiple users sharing one license. And I have heard of Logos confronting a group of seminary students doing that. (So Logos obviously cares.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Dominick Sela said:
This is obviously a completely impractical solution
No argument with you there, of course, but so far I've never seen Bob even hint at 'special solutions' being available (other than, unofficially, for husband/wife or parent/child).
Let's also remember that it's not necessarily up to him: the license isn't for the software as much as it is for the books, and while the software is under Bob's control, the books are under the publishers'. If Logos' contracts with the publishers say 'one license, one user' -- which I would assume they do -- then Bob can't offer any exceptions, since, when the publishers found out that he'd knowingly sold a license to a library with, say, 500 students, they would presumably, at best send him a bill for 499 extra licenses, at worst cancel all further cooperation and take him to court, demanding huge damages for breach of contract.
Besides, given the design of L4, I would also say that trying to use it in a library setting is also a completely unpractical solution.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
The question of library license seems to be coming up more frequently. So some suggestions for logos:
1. Can it be explained why (we all have our educated guesses) there is no group or library licensing allowed. The educated guess most often stated is that publishers will not allow it. But that is only an educated guess and not a good one. It would not surprise me if some publishers will not allow group or library licensing but I am quite sure other publishers would allow it. So it could be possible to offer a group licensing package that would include only publishers that will allow for it.
2. Logos, a group (especially a library) license may be a way to promote Logos and encourage more uses to purchase their their own for use at home
3. If there is academic pricing, why not brainstorm with an academic library licensing or group licensing with only a set number of resources that publishers agree to allow
Just some thoughts to consider
0 -
Dante Infante said:
Do you know somebody who setup logos software in multiple computer on their library
I tried, and Logos said, 'No.'
Logos has even said that if two pastors share the same computer, that each pastor must purchase his/her own license to use Logos.
0 -
In the publishing world, since publishers are intrusted with equitable handling of an author's work by contract, everything comes down to royalty payments due to the author. Even if a title is public domain, Logos still may have a subsidiary rights contract with a publisher because of the editing that has been performed by that publisher on the work.
Your brother, Gregory
0 -
Dante Infante said:
Do you know somebody who setup logos software in multiple computer on their library
Personally no. Configuring a group of computers for individualized Logos use would be similar to configuring a group of computers for individualized Office usage, including Outlook for email and calendars; every individual needs their own user account and storage. Also needs user cooperation to share computers plus logoff when done. Windows group policy editor has some items: screen saver automatic start after few minutes of being idle (needs password to unlock) and automatic logoff after # minutes of being idle (to allow others to logon).
Logos is a personalized digital library. Ideal situation is every student using their own laptop, which could be used during class. An idea is multi-function printer kiosks, which could be shared.
Dante Infante said:... also some arrangement in licensing of logos software per unit?
The Logos licensing "unit" is individual human user accounts using an email address for the login id.
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Mark said:
Can it be explained why (we all have our educated guesses) there is no group or library licensing allowed.
Mark,
one thing to keep in mind is that beyond all talk of licensing and contracts, Logos software currently is not designed as a multi-user software. Thus, we have read multiple times here of people that were allowed to share a licence and still opted not to do it, since the software design has some practical consequences. People sharing Logos would also automatically share
- their notes, including all highlights (some students might cherish this, some professors less so)
- their reading lists, including the completion markers
- their favorites, layouts
- their history, including searches performed
- their passage lists
- their prioritizations
- their prayer lists
- their Faithlife groups including postings made, communty notes, messages....
- their Personal Books
- ...
Especially in an academic situation I don't think it is a good idea to have the first student reading and marking up the textbooks, adding annotations, counting Greek forms in a text etc pp. and all the others getting his or her work shoved into their face without even the chance to think about how to structure morph searches etc., not to mention the possible invasion into privacy.
What I could imagine is a number of students each having their own licence, and using the library computer to access their personal library. Most universities (as well as corporations) use a model where people log in from a (potentially shared) PC into their personalized user account, accessing their files etc on a server. I don't know how this would scale with Logos (it's possible to install on a custom drive), but it were a possibility.
This would allow the students to grow their own library as they like and also allow the students to access Logos resources on their mobile devices and laptops and to take their work with them when they go on vacations and when they graduate.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
NB.Mick said:
What I could imagine is a number of students each having their own licence, and using the library computer to access their personal library. Most universities (as well as corporations) use a model where people log in from a (potentially shared) PC into their personalized user account, accessing their files etc on a server.
I wonder if Logos has thought about that. Another way is to modify the program for a more public use such as in a library where notes are not an option, just research and reading. I am sure that is possible. The benefits of either your suggestion or this one is that more people get familiar with the program and then have an option to purchase it.
it takes wise marketing to capture a larger audience
0 -
tom collinge said:
Logos has thought about it,
But it is always worth reconsidering. On the other hand, logos has committed themselves to the cloud. If that is the case, there is no need for a library or group license. As long as a library has internet, any student with the program could log on at the library. I know at this point it is a hybrid program and I hope it always will be hybrid. But I know you can access your books at biblia.com.
Tom, I realize you have tried the library thing and learned you could not do it. But logos seems to change strategy from time to time, so they could reconsider. Under L3, various companies were able to produce their books in libronix format. In L4, logos changed strategies. Libronix is a model of the past. I was disappointed to see it go. But it does highlight the fact that decisions of yesteryear are not always permanent. It is good to make suggestions which hopefully Logos will seriously consider and decide what is best for them as well as their customers.
0 -
I think Mick has presented the only potential solution and you probably would still want to run it through Logos. Have each of the students pay for a package as part of their admissions and have the core L4 loaded on the computers. Each student then would need to login with their own Logos id (which they would have purchased.) Seems to be the only potential work around for you but would be hampered by the loading/indexing/syncing of individual libraries every time you logged in to a computer.
0 -
tom collinge said:Mark said:
I wonder if Logos has thought about that. Another way is to modify the program for a more public
Logos has thought about it, and they have decided to go in the opposite direction - each user needs her or his own licence.
What am I missing here? I thought Mark's comment was made in response to Mick saying "What I could imagine is a number of students each having their own licence" (my bold).
NB.Mick said:What I could imagine is a number of students each having their own licence, and using the library computer to access their personal library.
That sounds an awful lot like what I said earlier:
fgh said:The only legal way to do this would be to buy as many packages as you have students using the library.
The difference, I guess, would be that you seem to assume the students being the owners of the licenses, while I, keeping closer to the question posed, probably envisioned the library owning them and the students losing access when graduating.
I admit, though, that I can't really see why anyone would want to access Logos via a library computer, if they themselves own the licenses. All students have computers these days, don't they? So why involve the library at all in that case?
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
Rusty Davidson said:
Have each of the students pay for a package as part of their admissions and have the core L4 loaded on the computers.
fgh said:I admit, though, that I can't really see why anyone would want to access Logos via a library computer, if they themselves own the licenses. All students have computers these days, don't they? So why involve the library at all in that case?
Ideal situation is every student having their own laptop that can be used in class and other places. The library could be one of the places on campus with multi-function printer kiosks and wi-fi access. Suspect library usage for hard copy books included in Logos would decrease.
One idea is requiring every student to have a less expensive Logos base package license for a year or two, then requiring an upgrade to a bigger base package (using academic discount and payment plans). Essentially a personal Logos 4 license becomes a textbook requirement for many classes. Advanced classes need more library resources.
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Thank you FGH,
Yes based on the standard licensing, there is no such licensing and I'm not referring to anyone who illegally do it but I'm trying to know the possible legal arrangement in logos software installation in library-setup as well as their experiences in setting-up logos in library environment legally. I believe Logos understands the needs and concern of its client and still looking forward to the possible special legal arrangement with them.
It's not practical also: "The only legal way to do this would be to buy as many packages as you
have students using the library. One license, one user, that's it."0 -
Dante ... can we safely assume you already have other Bible software licensed in your library? Your questions seem to indicate you already know of Logos library installations. I could easily have misunderstood.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Dante Infante said:
Thank you for the related thread link.
Do you know somebody who setup logos software in multiple computer on their library, that can share their experiences in setting-up and also some arrangement in licensing of logos software per unit?
Che, vos sos boludo o te haces? Que no lees bien el ingles? Te estan diciendo que no se puede hacer lo que vos pedis. Tenes que pagar para poder instalar Logos en varias computadoras. Ahora si no queres pagar instalalas y no digas nada pero no creo que el software te deje hacerlo.
English translation: Dude, are you stupid or are you playing stupid? Don't you read English good? They are telling you that what you are asking cannot be done. You have to pay to be able to install Logos in multiple computers. Now if you don't want to pay then install it and don't say anything but I don't think the software will allow you to do it.
LOL = [6]
Giovanni
0 -
DMB...the library is still under construction and we don't have yet any computers in the library or any bible software installed but like what i have said we're planning to setup the logos software in the library this coming July and I'm looking forward to that but still I need some references and resources of information to considered in the deployment of logos, like licenses, packages, cost, and all legal point of view, as well as the alternatives solution to the plans. I believe this forum would be great help for us. Thanks.
0 -
Dante Infante said:
DMB...the library is still under construction and we don't have yet any computers in the library or any bible software installed but like what i have said we're planning to setup the logos software in the library this coming July and I'm looking forward to that but still I need some references and resources of information to considered in the deployment of logos, like licenses, packages, cost, and all legal point of view, as well as the alternatives solution to the plans. I believe this forum would be great help for us. Thanks.
You are to be commended for thinking of an innovative approach in your school. This is an area that publishers have followed the traditional approach to libraries.
Questions like this should be directed to Logos, itself.
The forum is made up of Logos users. We have no authority to speak for Logos. Those that have responded have told you what we know of the policies of Logos.
0 -
Dante Infante said:
we're planning to setup the logos software in the library this coming July and I'm looking forward to that but still I need some references and resources of information to considered in the deployment of logos, like licenses, packages, cost, and all legal point of view, as well as the alternatives solution to the plans.
For campus use, thought about a virtual machine for each student, which has their individualized Logos library. Virtual machines would need some very powerful servers plus high-speed network infrastructure for simultaneous use by lots of students. Caveat: less expensive net books or iPad's could be carried by students, which can remotely control virtual machines. Another caveat: if servers are not available, more students are affected.
If every student has a laptop with their own licensed Logos library, personally have doubts about library computer usage; may only need computer(s) to manage hard copy check out(s).
One idea to discuss with Logos is a librarian having an individualized Logos library with lots of Logos resources so the librarian could be a research assistant for students and staff, probably with a practical limit of what could be printed (or sent via email).
Edwin Bowden said:Questions like this should be directed to Logos, itself.
The forum is made up of Logos users. We have no authority to speak for Logos. Those that have responded have told you what we know of the policies of Logos.
Related thread => Licensing for University Library includes a reply by a Logos employee (blue logo under avatar) => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/50905/375088.aspx#375088
Tommy Ball said:Super Tramp said:there is no institutional licensing available.
This is true. There was at some point a licensing similar to this years and years ago, but was also discontinued years and years ago. I cannot speak to any plans (or lack thereof) regarding the concept in the future.
Keep Smiling [:)]0 -
Dante Infante said:
Thank you FGH,
Yes based on the standard licensing, there is no such licensing and I'm not referring to anyone who illegally do it but I'm trying to know the possible legal arrangement in logos software installation in library-setup as well as their experiences in setting-up logos in library environment legally. I believe Logos understands the needs and concern of its client and still looking forward to the possible special legal arrangement with them.
Like others have said: the chances of there being any such arrangement without anyone here having heard even a whisper about it seems extremely slim, and (unless Bob should happen to turn up) no one here is going to be able to tell you anything more than we already have. If you want to pursue the matter further, you'll need to contact Bob personally. I believe his e-mail was in one of the earlier posts.
Please come back and tell us the result. It'll be useful for the future.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
Yes I already email Bob about my concern and still waiting for the reply, I will post the positive result for future use as well. Thanks again.
0 -
Dante Infante said:
Yes I already email Bob about my concern and still waiting for the reply, I will post the positive result for future use as well. Thanks again.
I earnestly hope Bob can come up with a workable (legal & uncomplicated) way to make Logos software available in libraries. I ran across one seminary that has Logos installed in their library. I doubt it is a legal use under the current license. For seminaries to prepare students for Christian service while using illegal software boggles my mind.
It is also unfair to the individual users who have legally purchased Logos resources over many years and at great sacrifice. Some users have spent from $3000+ (Portfolio Edition) to upwards of $40,000 to $50,000.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
For campus use, thought about a virtual machine for each student, which has their individualized Logos library. Virtual machines would need some very powerful servers plus high-speed network infrastructure for simultaneous use by lots of students.
One idea to discuss with Logos is a librarian having an individualized Logos library with lots of Logos resources so the librarian could be a research assistant for students and staff, probably with a practical limit of what could be printed (or sent via email).
These two ideas probably are worth pursuing with Logos. As to the first one, if the library has the hard copy of the resource that a student is needing, the Logos program could be useful in providing quick reference as to which books and what page to look. As mentioned in the suggestion, the Librarian and/or staff could have access to do a quick search and print out the search result. Then again, Logos could possibly in the future allow this type of searching on biblia.com, where a librarian could have a special access code to simply to the search and print out the results to be used to look up in hard copies of the resources.
Just a thought
0
said: