SUGGESTION: Nickelsburg Hermeneia 1 Enoch Translation

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This post has 35 Replies | 2 Followers

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jul 14 2012 5:37 PM

I would like to see the Nickelsburg/VanderKam translation of 1 Enoch that is available separately from the Hermeneia commentaries. 

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 6:16 PM

Nice idea but hard to say if Fortress or Logos would be in a hurry to give people an excuse to not buy the commentary. But I would be happy to see them get it...

 

-Dan

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 6:23 PM

Well, it wouldn't take the place of the commentary.  It is just the text used in the commentary.  They already sell the text separately, as shown in the link above.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 7:14 PM

Joseph Turner:

Well, it wouldn't take the place of the commentary.  It is just the text used in the commentary.  They already sell the text separately, as shown in the link above.

It says that the translation is BASED on the commentary.  Would it be a good idea to buy the translation separately then buy the commentary WITH the translation?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 7:23 PM

No, if you want to read the text, as you would read any other, then you would buy just the text.  The commentary doesn't have one continuous version of the text, as it is split throughout the commentary.  You could read the text via the commentary, but it would be very inconvenient.

Reading the text from the commentary would be like reading the Gospel of John from the pericopes in something like the NICNT commentary on John.

I own both the text and the 1 Enoch vol 1 commentary in paper.  Also, if the Enoch text was available in Logos, then it could be linked from Enoch references in other texts.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 7:34 PM

Joseph Turner:

No, if you want to read the text, as you would read any other, then you would buy just the text.  The commentary doesn't have one continuous version of the text, as it is split throughout the commentary.  You could read the text via the commentary, but it would be very inconvenient.

Reading the text from the commentary would be like reading the Gospel of John from the pericopes in something like the NICNT commentary on John.

I own both the text and the 1 Enoch vol 1 commentary in paper.  Also, if the Enoch text was available in Logos, then it could be linked from Enoch references in other texts.

RH Charles and Charlesworth already have the text.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 7:42 PM

And I have them both, but the one suggested is newer and well respected.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 8:07 PM

And I will admit this volume looks like it will a good thing to have in addition to the commentary.

-Dan

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 8:10 PM

I do like it a lot.  The text only version obviously doesn't have commentary, but it does have textual notes and such, which is useful. 

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 7 2013 12:17 PM

I would like to bring this up again, especially since the 2 volumes of commentary are finished.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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JPH | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 8 2013 8:09 AM

YesYes

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 9:48 AM

I can't imagine why this is not available.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 10:22 AM

Joseph Turner:

I can't imagine why this is not available.

Probably because its basically contained in the Hermeneia series https://www.logos.com/product/33511/hermeneia-old-testament 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2122
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 10:55 AM

George, do you own Bibles?  If so, then why?  I am sure that you have the entire text of the Bible in your commentaries, correct?

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 11:13 AM

Joseph Turner:

George, do you own Bibles?  If so, then why?  I am sure that you have the entire text of the Bible in your commentaries, correct?

Vol 1 in the 2 vol set on Enoch is almost all translation.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 12:50 PM

No it isn't.  It covers the introduction, 1-36, and 81-108.  Each section covers between 1 and 8 verses, and then has a large amount of commentary.  One would also have to look through both volumes to get the full text.  I would rather read the text in one section, as opposed to searching throughout the commentaries, which I do own.  Why do you find that suggestions so disagreeable?  Surely you don't choose to look through commentaries instead of using a Bible.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 1:00 PM

Of course I read a commentary rather than the scripture; don't you?  Wink 

There is another translation of 1 Enoch in Charlesworth

Charlesworth, James H. The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. Vol. 1. New York;  London: Yale University Press, 1983. 

It's not Nickelsburg, but it appears to be complete (of course there's always Charles). 

BTW:  Are you now considering 1 Enoch to be scripture?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5315
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 1:09 PM

George Somsel:
BTW:  Are you now considering 1 Enoch to be scripture?

I personally don't but the Ethiopian orthodox church does. Some people might be inclined to think of it as so since Jude quoted it... but just because something is quoted in the NT does not mean the author considered it scripture either. 

-dan

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 1:14 PM

Dan Francis:

George Somsel:
BTW:  Are you now considering 1 Enoch to be scripture?

I personally don't but the Ethiopian orthodox church does. Some people might be inclined to think of it as so since Jude quoted it... but just because something is quoted in the NT does not mean the author considered it scripture either. 

-dan

Yes, and Paul (well, pseudo-Paul) quoted the Cretan Epimenides.  Does anyone consider him to be included in "scripture"?

BTW:  The OT has some quotes (or references) to the Book of Jashar and to the Annals of the kings but we know nothing else about them.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 1:23 PM

Joseph Turner is right here guys. Because Logos does not treat translations embedded as Scripture we cannot use it in text comparisons. References to the text do not work as it is the commentary not the Bible text that is opened as the link. All in all the handling of translations within a commentary is an abomination.

The Book of Enoch by Charles is rightly classified as Bible and should behave as Bible ... I just had a prioritization hassle with it this weekend when I want's Black's Commentary to display is in a Power Lookup. I was not happy with Logos inconsistencies.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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