Logos Bible Software 4.6 Beta 1 (4.60.0.2634) YIKES!

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2012 6:31 AM | Locked

Kevin A. Purcell:

I can understand many of the obscure bugs that get through in these beta releases, but how does something like this escape the notice. That's like letting a model of a car out of the factory where none of the radios turn on. You'd think they'd find a fix for such a big feature before releasing a beta. I can understand it showing in internal builds, but not a public beta.

Most of the time before a Beta is released it goes through internal testing [alpha testing].  That testing should include regression testing and not just testing the 'new' stuff.  Logos 4 is very complex, made up of many many modules and all it takes is for one module to miss an internal testing step to make the alpha test look bad. [that is bugs passed along to the beta] [one last fix that skips the alpha testing when what should be done is restart the alpha testing from step one [but it was only a one line fix] - some developer that had a copy of the 'old' code and mixed it up with the 'new' code when trying to fix that one last thing the last day before going bata [deliberate misspelling - beta to bats]- and other whoops]

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Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 22 2012 10:18 PM | Locked

Not to be pushy but eager to see this get fixed!

It is good to learn new ways to navigate though...

Posts 2868
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 23 2012 3:27 PM | Locked

David Ames:

Kevin A. Purcell:

I can understand many of the obscure bugs that get through in these beta releases, but how does something like this escape the notice. That's like letting a model of a car out of the factory where none of the radios turn on. You'd think they'd find a fix for such a big feature before releasing a beta. I can understand it showing in internal builds, but not a public beta.

 

Most of the time before a Beta is released it goes through internal testing [alpha testing].  That testing should include regression testing and not just testing the 'new' stuff.  Logos 4 is very complex, made up of many many modules and all it takes is for one module to miss an internal testing step to make the alpha test look bad. [that is bugs passed along to the beta] [one last fix that skips the alpha testing when what should be done is restart the alpha testing from step one [but it was only a one line fix] - some developer that had a copy of the 'old' code and mixed it up with the 'new' code when trying to fix that one last thing the last day before going bata [deliberate misspelling - beta to bats]- and other whoops]

That's fine for something that's not as much a central part of the program. But this clearly shows that no one involved in the alpha test actually uses Logos to prepare their sermons or Bible studies. I can't imagine how such a big bug could get through if as few as 12 people tested it and any of them used it for actual Bible Study prep. The Passage Guide is as basic to Logos as turning on a radio on your car. Few people who actually use the app don't use the PG at some point I'd bet.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 23 2012 4:09 PM | Locked

Kevin A. Purcell:

But this clearly shows that no one involved in the alpha test actually uses Logos to prepare their sermons or Bible studies. I can't imagine how such a big bug could get through if as few as 12 people tested it and any of them used it for actual Bible Study prep. The Passage Guide is as basic to Logos as turning on a radio on your car. Few people who actually use the app don't use the PG at some point I'd bet.

Dear Logos Testing Department;

 Please have that Alpha Tester that prepares a sermon using the version of Logos 4 that will be released the next day as Beta z post their procedure used so that the Beta Testers can review it.  There seems to be a bug in the Alpha Test Sermon Preparation Procedure.  Thanks.

 [[Sent this as an email to customerservice@logos.com]]

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 23 2012 6:48 PM | Locked

David - I can appreciate your frustration. Having gone through many beta cycles now, I have come to realize that it is best not to remain on beta channel once the release goes live, especially when you don't have multiple machines and depend upon the one. By changing your channel to stable, you should not be surprised by an unusable beta. Once the beta has been put through the ringer a little, you can switch back over.

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 24 2012 5:36 AM | Locked

alabama24:

David - I can appreciate your frustration. Having gone through many beta cycles now, I have come to realize that it is best not to remain on beta channel once the release goes live, especially when you don't have multiple machines and depend upon the one. By changing your channel to stable, you should not be surprised by an unusable beta. Once the beta has been put through the ringer a little, you can switch back over.

David is not, currently, frustrated.  David is not on Beta Chanel. [There must be some language where Beta is defined as ‘frustrated’] But David has done much Beta testing and knows what it can be like.

As I was an in house Beta tester I had access to the Alpha testers and working together we got a better product out the door.  We also used error reports from our out of house Beta and also live customers to better our in house testing.  And, as here, many of our Beta errors were because of inadequate testing to see what got broke in fixing something else.  And, in our case, many of those were from so called simple one line fixes that did not get run through the entire test process [mostly fixing errors found in the test cycle and thus done at the end of the long test cycle and nobody wanted to re run all of the tests yet again – big mistake].  After several cycles they moved me to running standard tests that just looked for those errors and I did have permission to run all of those tests after the ‘last’ fix.

Which is why I am not doing Beta here [too much brain damage from banging head against wall while doing Beta testing elsewhere] but I started commenting on this thread to thank the Beta testers and got into one of their problems. [in sympathy with them]

Also, just a reminder, I happen to be a PC person but the problem here seemed to be related to testing procedures and not a mac/pc problem.  If they are missing THAT on the MAC side they are most likely missing it on the PC side also.

It just looked like Your MAC beta testers needed to know that they were not alone. 

So I dropped by to try to encourage them. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 24 2012 6:35 AM | Locked

David Ames:
It just looked like Your MAC beta testers needed to know that they were not alone. 

So I dropped by to try to encourage them.

Big Smile

Thanks for clarifying. Encouragement is appreciated. Even from a PC. Wink

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 214
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 24 2012 10:09 AM | Locked

I am waiting for the next update. Not frustrated, not mad, not upset with Logos. Just waiting so we can report the next round of bugs to improve the product. Thanks to all of the other beta testers for finding the things that need to be fixed. 

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 24 2012 10:39 AM | Locked

Jeffrey S. Robison:

I am waiting for the next update. Not frustrated, not mad, not upset with Logos. Just waiting so we can report the next round of bugs to improve the product. Thanks to all of the other beta testers for finding the things that need to be fixed. 

Same here I am upset logos beta is broken but I am not upset with Logos itself, I am using beta software, it is expected to be buggy. I was a little upset not to be able to go back to the stable version, but again that is not Logos fault I know the caveats this version runs ok and i am glad for that as i would hate to be limited to my iPAD. I just hope beta 2 is ready soon.

-dan

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Tonya J Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 11:23 AM | Locked

Tonya J Ross:

Dan Francis:
When I open a passage guide it populates fine but when i click or double click on any volume in the list nothing happens

There is an active case for this issue.

This issue should be resolved in 4.6 Beta 2.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 12:25 PM | Locked

Thanks, hope beta 2 is out soon… but i do realize better to be done right than fast and buggy.

 

-dan

Posts 263
Jackie Watts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 1:25 PM | Locked

Space bar not working to move page? Anybody else seem to have this issue? (MacBook Retina w/Mountain Lion)

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 8:39 AM | Locked

alabama24:

David - I can appreciate your frustration. Having gone through many beta cycles now, I have come to realize that it is best not to remain on beta channel once the release goes live, especially when you don't have multiple machines and depend upon the one. By changing your channel to stable, you should not be surprised by an unusable beta. Once the beta has been put through the ringer a little, you can switch back over.

The problem isn't that people who use the beta a lot don't realize that its beta and will have problems.

The problem is that this particular bug was released into a public beta. Why would Logos release a public beta with such a fundamentally and universally used feature reressing? If I were the guy in charge of when the beta gets pushed out, I'd let some bugs out, but not something this big. I'd say, woops! This Alpha is not ready to go to public beta till we fix this major feature that worked fine in the previous beta.

That they didn't stop that release leads me to believe that one of two things may be true.

1. They don't really care that much when regressions slip into the beta. We'll fix it in the next cycle.

2. They don't use the software for regular sermon or Bible study prep and therefore didn't actually use the Passage Guide during this round of testing.

Either way its disconcerting and makes me wonder if Logos will continue to regress in quality as it as been over the last couple of years. The features get more interesting but the quality of the software slips, at least on the Mac side.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 11:19 AM | Locked

Kevin A. Purcell:
If I were the guy in charge of when the beta gets pushed out, I'd let some bugs out, but not something this big

Seems they want to push the Mac beta out along with the Windows beta whether it will work or not.

Apparently no one on the dev team actually uses L4 Mac.

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 12:57 AM | Locked

Jack Caviness:
Apparently no one on the dev team actually uses L4 Mac.

How glaring bugs and regressions creep out through the various stages of development has been a mystery to me.  There is a news story from last week of a young boy who boarded a plane in Manchester bound for Italy that was not discovered until the flight was in route. He ran away from home, went through various levels of security with no passport and got on the plane without a ticket. Everyone is stunned how he got that far and in the end, it was passengers on the flight that picked up that something was not quite right. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/25/11-year-old-flies-rome-manchester?newsfeed=true

I sometimes wonder the same thing about some of these bugs and regressions.  How can you genuinely use the product and not notice some of this stuff before the go button gets pressed?  My theory is that the development team must be maxed out with work loads. 

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