Logos Is Too Expensive

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George | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 1:10 PM

Joel Reed:

Please tell me if I'm way off base here ... but I'm sure there are many of you out there who have experienced the same thing.

I am one of those who think that some of the resources are ridiculously expensive.  I posted an example about two weeks ago on the very same subject (for example http://www.logos.com/product/4104/a-critical-and-exegetical-commentary-on-numbers only 95$ for a resource that was published in 1905 and can de downloaded for free at archive.org or http://www.logos.com/product/3923/the-works-of-jonathan-edwards for 119).  That being said, I don't think the base packages are too expensive since Logos has to pass some of the revenue back to the publishers.  You will find some very good bible study tools that are indeed free but as soon as you want to add some more recent Bible translations you have to start paying.

Joel Reed:

.. charging $150 for a basic Bible software package including no more than a Few Bibles, References and Commentaries ... most of which you can find for free on any eBook website!.

Well, you could go to a junkyard and get a bunch of car parts for free or for cheap, but that doesn't mean you will end up with a cheap or good car.  People buy Logos because it is a good software solution that helps them do what they need to do more efficiently than by buying cheap books individually.  I know for one that Logos helped me many times. 

That being said, after spending a lot of money on Logos I will NOT purchase Jonathan Edward's works for 120 (or for half that price either) or anything similarly priced for resources out of copyright.  I will instead use PBB and build my own resource.  I will spend 95$ for a book out of copyright ONLY when I absolutely need it or I lost the use of my mental faculties.Smile

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 1:17 PM

George Somsel:
I think your ploy is despicable and totally non-Christian.

I think Joel is completely off base. He continues to state that Logos is overpriced "software" when in fact the software can be used in a completely free fashion.

That said George, in regard to your comment, I think of the old saying, "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."

Donnie

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 1:32 PM

Joel:
I hope you're joking. Confused

Not at all.  

God calls children a blessing and debt a curse. Only in America do we "plan" against receiving a blessing and apply in triplicate to receive a curse.

My marriage has been thus blessed 19 times (6 already in Heaven)  

My Logos account reflects my appreciation of fine Bible software and my lack of love of money. Wink

I will even spend lots of cash on a good Sushi restaurant. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 1:51 PM

ST ... comparing Logos to sushi was COMPLETELY uncalled for. Anything else maybe. But sushi? It's just VERY unfair to Logos.

We all DO remember the good Savior, not long before his departure, was BBQ'ing fish on the shores of Galilee, and was so happy to see 'the boys' bringing in a boatload of sushi!


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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 2:03 PM

Oh Joel,

My wife has also been a stay-at-home Mom and home-schooled all the young-uns. I just want to point out it is possible for a single income (yes, a modest income) family to buy Logos software. People will make a way to afford what they really appreciate.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 11
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 2:12 PM

Super Tramp:

Oh Joel,

My wife has also been a stay-at-home Mom and home-schooled all the young-uns. I just want to point out it is possible for a single income (yes, a modest income) family to buy Logos software. People will make a way to afford what they really appreciate.



Perhaps that's true, but the point I am trying to make is that Logos is too expensive, not whether or not I can save up enough money to buy it.

 

Posts 1982
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 2:24 PM

Joel, I know that you were inundated with responses (and many less than friendly), but I do believe that there were a lot of reasoned responses that you dismissed.  I do intend to read through your books by the way.

Also, why did you start a new ID?

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 2:42 PM

Joel:
 Perhaps that's true, but the point I am trying to make is that Logos is too expensive, not whether or not I can save up enough money to buy it.

But that is simply not true when you compare the minuscule cost of Logos compared to what most Christians spend on entertainment (sports & recreation included.) Mary Pride wrote decades ago we can tell what gods a nation worships by the cost of their temples. Every hospital, sports stadium, fancy eating spot are witnesses against us that we could have spent more money on Bible study software. 

Hey Dan Pritchet, It's time for a "beat the heat" summer sale. Turn off the air conditioners and spend the savings on some new Logos resources.

 

 

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 4:12 PM

Having spent most of my adult life in a service business I can say with certainty it is up to the market to determine what the price point for any product or service will be.

Logos products are priced based on the business decisions of those who run the company. As long as they see a revenue stream and profit margin they are satisifed with, they probably will not (and should not) be concerned with reducing prices. If they see margins drop they will have to determine if increasing the cost of their products, reducing the cost of producing the products, or a combination of both is required.

Bottom line...if the product or service (logos or anything else) you consume is a good value to you, but it. If it's not don't buy it.

Posts 1982
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 4:16 PM

Fredc:

Having spent most of my adult life in a service business I can say with certainty it is up to the market to determine what the price point for any product or service will be.

Logos products are priced based on the business decisions of those who run the company. As long as they see a revenue stream and profit margin they are satisifed with, they probably will not (and should not) be concerned with reducing prices. If they see margins drop they will have to determine if increasing the cost of their products, reducing the cost of producing the products, or a combination of both is required.

Bottom line...if the product or service (logos or anything else) you consume is a good value to you, but it. If it's not don't buy it.

Fred, I noticed in the introductions thread that came back up recently that you are from Warrior, AL.  I am right here in Kimberly and I teach at the high school.  It is truly a small world.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 11
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 4:19 PM

Joseph Turner:

Joel, I know that you were inundated with responses (and many less than friendly), but I do believe that there were a lot of reasoned responses that you dismissed.  I do intend to read through your books by the way.

Also, why did you start a new ID?



I agree, there were some great responses, and I do appreciate them very much.

However, that doesn't really change my opinion regarding Logos charging too much for their products.  

Thanks for giving my books a chance, we're almost finished our third installment so I might come back and post it in the future. 

I actually forgot that I had already signed up for an account, so I ended up with another one. (Different email address that I also use regularly)

 

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 4:43 PM

Joel Reed:
I'm sorry to say that something is simply not right with this world. I understand the fact that you have to make a profit in order to keep your feet on the ground, but charging over $600 for a beginners package seems a bit out of line.

Peace to you, Joel!                                   and ...                Always Joy in the Lord!                      

                I have some real problems with your posts, this one  .-- which is your first post on the Logos Forums -- ..    and the next one .....                         Perhaps I am a Logos Fan Boy since I've been using Logos Bible Software since around 1993; however, to me Logos is a great deal as I use it daily.

                          I did read your first .pdf The Book of Life, enjoyed quite a number of items in the book and appreciate that you shared it with the Logos Forums.  I will be pondering the contents for a while, then perhaps coming back with a review.  It was a pleasant 'read' -- I have to ponder neuthetic counselling, and come to various conclusions about that    

                    My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles.  It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs......  But, it's in the works  .....        *smile*

               He can always expand according to his needs ........

                               However, just looked again at the Logos First Level --  Home -- and it seems to me to be quite reasonable indeed!              I think Logos puts together a good first library. 

  I'm sorry you are so unhappy, and I wish you well.  But, ultimately, I can't see how that possibly can be Logos Bible Software's Fault and see no reason for you to attack them, particulalry in your first two posts -- right out of the clear blue sky!                     Wow!               El Zappo!     Lightning down on Logos!

             Why are you now so very angry with Logos?  Get over it and come back to the Forums and share in our give and take.  You'll find this a pretty "cool" place, most of the time!   We really do try to help and support one another; and it would be great if you were part of that.

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 11
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 5:07 PM

Milford Charles Murray:

Peace to you, Joel!                                   and ...                Always Joy in the Lord!                    

I have some real problems with your posts, this one  .-- which is your first post on the Logos Forums -- ..    and the next one .....                      
Perhaps I am a Logos Fan Boy since I've been using Logos Bible Software since around 1993; however, to me Logos is a great deal as I use it daily.
I did read your first .pdf The Book of Life, enjoyed quite a number of items in the book and appreciate that you shared it with the Logos Forums.  I will be pondering the contents for a while, then perhaps coming back with a review.  It was a pleasant 'read' -- I have to ponder neuthetic counselling, and come to various conclusions about that    
My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles.  It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs......  But, it's in the works  .....        *smile*
He can always expand according to his needs ........
However, just looked again at the Logos First Level --  Home -- and it seems to me to be quite reasonable indeed!              
I think Logos puts together a good first library.
I'm sorry you are so unhappy, and I wish you well.  But, ultimately, I can't see how that possibly can be Logos Bible Software's Fault and see no reason for you to attack them, particulalry in your first two posts -- right out of the clear blue sky!                     Wow!               
El Zappo!     Lightning down on Logos!
Why are you now so very angry with Logos?  Get over it and come back to the Forums and share in our give and take.  You'll find this a pretty "cool" place, most of the time!   We really do try to help and support one another; and it would be great if you were part of that.



Thanks for the kind words regarding my books Milford Charles Murray.

I will try my best to explain why I appear to be so 'mad' at Logos. 

Perhaps I can illustrate my original point by using Quick Verse/Word Search as an example. 

Keep in mind that I do not own Quick Verse, so this is strictly a research based point that I am trying to make. 

I don't think there's any question that Quick Verse is Logos' biggest competitor, since it is an equally impressive piece of software. 

That being said I believe you get much more value for your money using Quick Verse rather than Logos.

Here's an example to explain what I mean:

Logos offers 79 items as a part of their basic package for $149.99 with the option to upgrade to the next few levels for hundreds of dollars each. 
 
In comparison, Quick Verse offers over 200 items as a part of their basic package for a cost of $129.95 with the option to upgrade to their Gold edition for a mere $79.95. (Which appears to be on par with Logos' Scholars edition) I can't see why there is such a large price difference between the two software packages when they are offering virtually the same resources for each of their 'Deluxe' Packages. 

* Edit - I should also add the point that Quick Verse offers a TON of materials on their website for free, such as all of the non-copywritten books I have mentioned as free downloads. As far as I could see, Logos doesn't offer any books on their site for free.  (Systematic Theology is free on Quick Verse but costs $43.95 on Logos, The Complete Works of Josephus is free on Quickverse but costs $19.95 on Logos, Foxe's Book of Martyrs is available for Free on Quick Verse, but is not even available on the Logos website by itself because you have to purchase it as a set. These are only a few examples ... I could go on and on about the overpriced products on Logos' website, but I'll save you the chatter. 

Perhaps some of you know something that I don't know ... but as far as I can see Logos is a massive rip off.

 

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 5:10 PM

Joseph Turner:

Fred, I noticed in the introductions thread that came back up recently that you are from Warrior, AL.  I am right here in Kimberly and I teach at the high school.  It is truly a small world.

It is a small world. My church is Westside right at exit 281. Feel free to contact me off the forums through the website.

Posts 1982
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 5:33 PM

Joel:

Here's an example to explain what I mean:

Logos offers 79 items as a part of their basic package for $149.99 with the option to upgrade to the next few levels for hundreds of dollars each. 
 
In comparison, Quick Verse offers over 200 items as a part of their basic package for a cost of $129.95 with the option to upgrade to their Gold edition for a mere $79.95. (Which appears to be on par with Logos' Scholars edition) I can't see why there is such a large price difference between the two software packages when they are offering virtually the same resources for each of their 'Deluxe' Packages. 

* Edit - I should also add the point that Quick Verse offers a TON of materials on their website for free, such as all of the non-copywritten books I have mentioned as free downloads. (Systematic Theology is free on Quick Verse but costs $43.95 on Logos, The Complete Works of Josephus is free on Quickverse but costs $19.95 on Logos, Foxe's Book of Martyrs is available for Free on Quick Verse, but is not even available on the Logos website by itself because you have to purchase it as a set. These are only a few examples ... I could go on and on about the overpriced products on Logos' website. As far as I could see, Logos doesn't offer any books on their site for free. 

Perhaps some of you know something that I don't know ... but as far as I can see Logos is a massive rip off.

 

I noticed on the front page the NIV Application commentary set for Quickverse is considerably more expensive than it is in Logos, but I also noticed that the New American Commentary set is less expensive in Quickverse, but the books that you get in the Quickverse base packages are mostly books that you could get elsewhere free, and Quickverse doesn't offer anywhere near as many newer scholarly commentaries and books as Logos does, which means that it is not going to be nearly as expandable in the long run.  I also know that previous versions of QV are not as powerful as Logos.  I also don't think that QV has the original language tools that Logos has.  It is a highly inferior product.

You can't really make any judgments until you try Logos.  You can try any package for 30 days, so you have nothing to lose.  You then have every right to say what you want if you don't like it or think it's worth it.

By the way, Logos does offer free books via Vyrso and monthly free specials.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 11
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 5:39 PM

Joseph Turner:

I noticed on the front page the NIV Application commentary set for Quickverse is considerably more expensive than it is in Logos, but I also noticed that the New American Commentary set is less expensive in Quickverse, but the books that you get in the Quickverse base packages are mostly books that you could get elsewhere free, and Quickverse doesn't offer anywhere near as many newer scholarly commentaries and books as Logos does, which means that it is not going to be nearly as expandable in the long run.  I also know that previous versions of QV are not as powerful as Logos.  I also don't think that QV has the original language tools that Logos has.  It is a highly inferior product.

You can't really make any judgments until you try Logos.  You can try any package for 30 days, so you have nothing to lose.  You then have every right to say what you want if you don't like it or think it's worth it.

 



I think there are a lot of great products offered in the Logos package, but to say there aren't any deep scholarly commentaries and books included with Quick Verse is simply not true. In my opinion Quick Verse has a lot of solid resources to offer. Naturally if you are specifically seeking the kind of resources that Logos offers, then I'm sure you will be satisfied with your purchase. But you can't deny the fact that Logos charges a lot more for most of their products. Go through some of the items and I'm sure many of you will be surprised.

   

 
By the way, Logos does offer free books via Vyrso and monthly free specials.
 


I stand corrected.

Posts 1982
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 5:47 PM

Joel:

Joseph Turner:

I noticed on the front page the NIV Application commentary set for Quickverse is considerably more expensive than it is in Logos, but I also noticed that the New American Commentary set is less expensive in Quickverse, but the books that you get in the Quickverse base packages are mostly books that you could get elsewhere free, and Quickverse doesn't offer anywhere near as many newer scholarly commentaries and books as Logos does, which means that it is not going to be nearly as expandable in the long run.  I also know that previous versions of QV are not as powerful as Logos.  I also don't think that QV has the original language tools that Logos has.  It is a highly inferior product.

You can't really make any judgments until you try Logos.  You can try any package for 30 days, so you have nothing to lose.  You then have every right to say what you want if you don't like it or think it's worth it.

 



I think there are a lot of great products offered in the Logos package, but to say there aren't any deep scholarly commentaries and books included with Quick Verse is simply not true. In my opinion Quick Verse has a lot of solid resources to offer. Naturally if you are specifically seeking the kind of resources that Logos offers, then I'm sure you will be satisfied with your purchase. But you can't deny the fact that Logos charges a lot more for most of their products. Go through some of the items and I'm sure many of you will be surprised.

   

 
By the way, Logos does offer free books via Vyrso and monthly free specials.
 


I stand corrected.

Now I didn't say that Quickverse didn't have any scholarly commentaries did I?  They seem to have NIV Application Commentary and New American Commentary, which I like.  Logos has those, plus Word Biblical Commentary, Hermeneia, Anchor Bible, New International Comentary on the Old/New Testaments, etc...  I as deffinitely correct instating that Quickverse has nowhere near the amount.

I also forgot that you can download the Logos Perseus collections that will add thousands of ancient works without charge.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 9:40 PM

Joel:
As far as I could see, Logos doesn't offer any books on their site for free.

Logos has a number of items for $ 0.00 => http://www.logos.com/products/search?start=0&sort=pricelo&pageSize=30 with the Perseus collections totaling 1,743 resources.

http://vyrso.com has monthly specials that include a number of eBooks for $ 0.00 (readable and searchable in Logos 4).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 10:20 PM

Really these are two different products market segmented to varying groups of software users.  Comparing these two products really does seem like mixing Apples and Oranges and hoping no one will notice.  It strikes me that Logos has a two edged sword of providing the most product for your buck at the same time, with it's monopoly in the market place, also charging the highest price possible to those using it.  For the high end its quite a bang for the $20,000 buck if you want a portable library that a small seminary would be proud of while also delivering entry level products Lifeway Resources easily beat for the money.  After Logos saturates a rather limited market with several thousand more antiquated works I wonder what will be next to turn a profit...maybe buy Lifeway and then sell the whole company to Barnes & Noble for market consolidation.  Imagine the possibilities of thousands more public domain books to add to your Family Friend Research and Education Station. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 10:25 PM

Joel Reed:
I don't mean to be rude, but my family runs on a single income, and my wife stays at home to school our little boy. That being said it is incredibly hard to find the extra resources to purchase a decent Bible Software program to grow in our faith.

Understand single income plus unemployment.  Thankful for Logos payment plan option.  Logos does not charge interest on the outstanding balance, but does pass along a monthly fee for processing payments.  If payment plan balance is paid off early, the monthly processing fee is avoided.

One idea is talking with Logos sales => http://www.logos.com/about/contact

If Logos resources and library integration are not valuable to you, then using freely available open source is a viable alternative.

Joel Reed:
I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.

Open source programs are available (e.g. TheWord), which have several thousand resources, which is significantly less than resources available for use in Logos.  Caveat: trying manage/organize lots of resources in TheWord can be a bit challenging.  Logos 4 has better library management for thousands of resources.

Logos Bible Software has more usable features than open source alternatives; albeit a number of Logos features need appropriate resources, which can cost.  A number of Logos Bible Software users interact with their library for many hours every day.

Note: Logos 4 Mac uses the mono open source project so Logos 4 code base can be shared on PC and Mac.

By the way, several large companies have funded substantial open source development to provide competitive alternatives.

Keep Smiling Smile

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