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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 8 2009 8:11 PM

Two items:

1. When you choose "Search | BDAG Search"  I would have thought that the "D" (or "d") would bring up that option; however, the "d" is already used by "Bible Speed Search" with the result that I have to grab the mouse (Horrors !) and mouse down to it.  Is there another way?

2. Someone on b-greek today asked about finding all of the neuter nouns.  I wouldn't know what area to begin searching.  Can this be done?  Remember -- neuter nouns.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 1:21 AM

GeorgeSomsel:
2. Someone on b-greek today asked about finding all of the neuter nouns.  I wouldn't know what area to begin searching.  Can this be done?  Remember -- neuter nouns.

I can't find "neuter" nouns on any Hebrew morphology  - unless "Common" or "Both M. & F." apply?

(and I don't have BDAG)

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 6:55 AM

GeorgeSomsel:
1. When you choose "Search | BDAG Search"  I would have thought that the "D" (or "d") would bring up that option; however, the "d" is already used by "Bible Speed Search" with the result that I have to grab the mouse (Horrors !) and mouse down to it.  Is there another way?

Use the cursor down-arrow key to move down to the menu item and hit return--no mouse required.  I was going to suggest you create a toolbar button for it and assign it the key-combination of your choice, but curiously, "BDAG Search" is not available in the list of commands that can be added to a button.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 19
G. Allen Gunn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 8:08 AM

George, are you asking about searching for neuter nouns in BDAG? Or about searcing for neuter nouns in a Bible passage? I'm assuming you're asking about searching BDAG, since searching in a Bible passage is fairly easy in Morphological Bible Search ([=N??N]).

--

George Gunn

Shasta Bible College

www.shasta.edu

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 8:26 AM

Yes, I am speaking of searching BDAG.  I could have simply done a search of the GNT or the GNT + LXX, but that would involve repeated finding of the same lemma in many instances.  I don't think the person originally asking the question was interested so much in how often and where each lemma appeared as in simply having a list.  I might question what use that might serve, but that is an entirely different matter.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1333
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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 10:29 AM

George says:

  I could have simply done a search of the GNT or the GNT + LXX, but that would involve repeated finding of the same lemma in many instances.

After doing the search, click "Search Analysis By Lemma" in the search results window. This will give you a lemma-sorted list of all occurrences. It'll take awhile for queries such at this, but I think that'll give you what you're looking for — a list of lemmas that occur as neuter nouns — and it'll also give you lists of instances (which, for nouns, also happens to be sorted by case). Alternately, you could click "Concordance" in the search results window, but this would aggregate and sort hits by the inflected form, not by the lemma.

Hope it helps,

Rick Brannan
http://blog.logos.com

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 11:39 AM

Rick Brannan:

George says:

  I could have simply done a search of the GNT or the GNT + LXX, but that would involve repeated finding of the same lemma in many instances.

After doing the search, click "Search Analysis By Lemma" in the search results window. This will give you a lemma-sorted list of all occurrences. It'll take awhile for queries such at this, but I think that'll give you what you're looking for — a list of lemmas that occur as neuter nouns — and it'll also give you lists of instances (which, for nouns, also happens to be sorted by case). Alternately, you could click "Concordance" in the search results window, but this would aggregate and sort hits by the inflected form, not by the lemma.

Hope it helps,

Rick Brannan
http://blog.logos.com

But apparently there is no way to search BDAG for this information if I correctly read between the lines. Nicht Wahr?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1333
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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 4:09 PM

Hi George.

I'd say that if you know all of the ways in which BDAG refers to nouns that are used in the neuter, and know conclusively that BDAG always references neuter usage in every possible place, and can disambiguate these from other neuter usage (article, pronoun, participle, adjective) then sure, you could search for such a thing. But that would be doing it the hard (and perhaps impossible) way.

If I want to know about usage of neuter nouns in the Greek New Testament, the morphologically annotated text is the place to go. That's the sort of task it is built for. If I want to know how a particular word is used in a corpus, then a lexicon for that corpus (e.g. BDAG for the Greek NT and other associated literature) is a good place to go.

Rick Brannan
http://blog.logos.com

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 17 2009 9:49 AM

Sounds like we're found an inadequacy with BDAG - part-of-speech information...

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 17 2009 11:06 AM

Mike Aubrey:

Sounds like we're found an inadequacy with BDAG - part-of-speech information...

Exactly !

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 28 2009 3:12 PM

and I could have sworn that it was perfect!

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 28 2009 3:18 PM

Mike Aubrey:

and I could have sworn that it was perfect!

Not quite.  It has a ways yet to get to my exalted estate.  Devil

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 172
Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 19 2009 8:04 PM

Im seriously considering the purchase of BDAG.  Even though you state that it is flawed in terms of part of speech information bible searches, is this lexicon worth the "bang for the buck"?  I am straddling the fence and finding it hard to make a decision with regard to this purchase.  I will say that I have Leaders library and I have added ANLEX, L&N, Lexham Greek-English Interlinear, and Lexham Discourse Greek.  Will BDAG help my study with these greek resources?  I do have Philo (greek version) and Josephus (english version).  The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear is NA27 based with logos morphology including strongs and L/N numbers.  Thanks for any input.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 19 2009 9:31 PM

Chris:

Im seriously considering the purchase of BDAG.  Even though you state that it is flawed in terms of part of speech information bible searches, is this lexicon worth the "bang for the buck"?  I am straddling the fence and finding it hard to make a decision with regard to this purchase.  I will say that I have Leaders library and I have added ANLEX, L&N, Lexham Greek-English Interlinear, and Lexham Discourse Greek.  Will BDAG help my study with these greek resources?  I do have Philo (greek version) and Josephus (english version).  The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear is NA27 based with logos morphology including strongs and L/N numbers.  Thanks for any input.

Sell your first-born child and buy BDAG.  Does that answer your question?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 172
Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 28 2009 8:34 PM
O.K.....I have sold everything and purchased BDAG. Now I need help!!!!!! Can anyone help me figure out why hovering over Philo and anything from the apocrypha does not pop up in an information window? If I click on Philo, Philo will open on a new page. Anything from the apocrypha gives me a message when I click at the bottom right....search library or internet for this resource. I find this annoying. I have several bibles with apocrypha's in them. They are not used as my favorite bible under bible tools, but changing this selection didn't seem to solve my problem. I could live with the fact that Philo wants to open a page, therefore I need to click as a link, but a simple verse or two from the apocraypha not popping up baffles me. HELP!!
Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 28 2009 8:55 PM

Chris:
O.K.....I have sold everything and purchased BDAG. Now I need help!!!!!! Can anyone help me figure out why hovering over Philo and anything from the apocrypha does not pop up in an information window? If I click on Philo, Philo will open on a new page. Anything from the apocrypha gives me a message when I click at the bottom right....search library or internet for this resource. I find this annoying. I have several bibles with apocrypha's in them. They are not used as my favorite bible under bible tools, but changing this selection didn't seem to solve my problem. I could live with the fact that Philo wants to open a page, therefore I need to click as a link, but a simple verse or two from the apocraypha not popping up baffles me. HELP!!

Good for you.  In regard to Philo and the Greek Pseudepigrapha Logos decided to try to make it accessible to everyone whether they knew Greek or not.  That is to say, people could look at the pretty pictures that are the Greek letters and maybe sound out the words following the transliteration and decode the morphology (I haven't gotten into that bit myself yet -- and I'm not sure I want to).  Then they could read the English which is what they should have been doing all along if they don't know Greek.  I assume you've turned off all of the lines except for the text itself which is the first thing I do with these idiot texts.  BTW: If you find it necessary or just desireable to check the morphology, it appears in the status bar in readable form, not code.  Right click on the word and select "Selected texta" and the lemma form.  If you've made BDAG your primary keylink for Greek then you should be able to slide over to the line where that appears in the right-click menu and click on BDAG.  Wouldn[t it have been so much easier if they had done it the way they should have?  That is, the way the NA27 was done or the LXX.  This is a screwball way of doing Greek texts.  Rick, you're fired [Well, of course you're not since I don't have the authority to do that.  But I wish you'd quit doing these blasted interlinears!]

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 28 2009 9:50 PM

Chris:
O.K.....I have sold everything and purchased BDAG. Now I need help!!!!!! Can anyone help me figure out why hovering over Philo and anything from the apocrypha does not pop up in an information window? If I click on Philo, Philo will open on a new page. Anything from the apocrypha gives me a message when I click at the bottom right....search library or internet for this resource. I find this annoying. I have several bibles with apocrypha's in them. They are not used as my favorite bible under bible tools, but changing this selection didn't seem to solve my problem. I could live with the fact that Philo wants to open a page, therefore I need to click as a link, but a simple verse or two from the apocraypha not popping up baffles me. HELP!!

Chris,

I'm assuming you're talking about hovering over BDAG references to Philo and the Apocrypha. (As opposed to hovering over the text of Philo).

For the Philo problem, you need to go the Keylink Option dialog and select "Works of Philo" in the Data Type list.  Click on the "Display" tab, and under where it says "When the Mouse Hovers over a Data Type reference:", select "Preview keylink in tip window".

I can't reproduce your Apocrypha problem, but I have added the NRSV (with Apocrypha) to my preferred keylink list for the Bible datatype.  I removed it just now, and it still found it, it just took longer.  Not sure why you wouldn't be able to resolve Apocrypha references.

Todd

 

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Posts 273
Ken Avery | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 29 2009 5:51 AM

Chris:
Can anyone help me figure out why hovering over Philo and anything from the apocrypha does not pop up in an information window?

 

Have you tried playing around with the "Tools->Options->General->interface" stuff?

God bless you and keep you,
Ken

Posts 172
Chris Ease | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 29 2009 5:56 AM

Thanks Todd!!  You solved my Philo problem.  BTW, my Philo version is Greek with morphology, but no English translation.  I just figured out the apocrypha problem.  I went to keylinking and chose bible.  I had about 5 or 6 resources there, but no bible with an apocrypha there.  Also, the list under the list, I had everything unchecked.  All I did is promote 2 bibles with apocrypha to my main list.  This solved the whole problem without sending logos into the twilight zone.  Thanks!!!!

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 29 2009 6:54 AM

Chris:
Also, the list under the list, I had everything unchecked.

Ah--this is the part I missed when I tried to recreate your problem.  I'm glad everything is working now!

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