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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 3 2012 2:53 PM

Paul Golder:

Just saying.

Say on. On that point I certainly agree.

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 9:25 AM

The new edit is much easier to not misunderstand. Still not sure that all of this can be gleaned from "Noah began to be a man of the soil" as that may merely explain where the wine came from with which he became drunk. Nevertheless, it is a much better entry now. Thanks:

The parallel to Adam is evident and deliberate (see 2:5, 15) and signifies continuity with Adam’s original blessing and mandated task. Taken together, the account of Noah’s birth (5:29), his deliverance from the flood, the repetition of the command to “be fruitful and multiply” (8:17), and this description of his occupation cast Noah as a new Adam: Creation finds renewal after the flood, and the relationship between God and humanity begins anew.1

1  Barry, J. D., Grigoni, M. R., Heiser, M. S., Custis, M., Mangum, D., & Whitehead, M. M. (2012). Faithlife Study Bible (Ge 9:20). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 10:15 AM

Commentaries are not inherently statements of fact...they are expressions of what people see.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 1:25 PM

MJ. Smith:

tom collinge:
For me, the way the word "described" is being used as saying "as written in the bible"

Thanks, Tom. I see why you interpret it as you do. It is a reasonable reading although not how I read it.

I respect you read it that way Tom, though personally even if I read it the way you are suggesting I still don't take it to mean that the biblical writer is saying.  Noah was the first person born after Adam's death.  I just take it as the establishing a link between the main characters in the narrative of salvation history. My expectation of the genre is to not expect it to provide every link in the chain of historical chronology.  Rather the biblical writer is including only people and events relevant to the 'biblical theology' he is trying to establish (as working under the direction of the Holy Spirit). of why man needs a Saviour, why Christ came and died for us.   All that said I respect you have read it differently and appreciate you explaining how you have read it differently.  Its a good reminder to not make assumptions based on our own perceptions of how others might interpret what is being communicated.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 1:26 PM

David Paul:

Commentaries are not inherently statements of fact...they are expressions of what people see.

Yes

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2012 9:13 AM

tom collinge:

For me, the way the word "described" is being used as saying "as written in the bible"  Therefore, I read this statement as "Noah is the first person described [as written in the bible] as being born after the death of Adam."  For me, the author using the word described is also saying, 'I didn't say this, it is written in the bible.  Go and check it out for yourself.  There is nothing in the author's statement that limits his/her comments to just one lineage.

I will even say that we cannot say that Noah is the first person born after the death of Adam because what is listed is first born males.  We do know that Noah had brothers and sisters.  What we do not know is if any of his sisters were older than Noah.  '

Taking this approach is unnecessarily oppressive since it gives supremacy to all possible arguments from silence. Perhaps more than any other book ever written, the Bible is concerned about what is contained within its pages...and very little about what is not.  "Described" may not be the correct word since a significant bit of math calculation is involved to arrive at the conclusion, but IF the calculation bears out, then the statement's purpose, shining light on the established fact that Noah was the first Biblical character born after Adam's death is a legitimate and prophetically important nugget. Possible others who might have come into existence between Adam's death and Noah's birth are superfluous and NOT WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION from a prophetic prospective.

While the statement in question from the OP might have been more deftly and carefully worded, its statements are not materially incorrect (assuming the math bears out).

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2012 1:48 PM

David Paul:
its statements are not materially incorrect (assuming the math bears out).

Yes

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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