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This post has 31 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 724
Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 25 2009 2:27 PM | Locked

Topics is much improved in the Passage Guide.

It makes sense and I see where the topics are coming from and where I can go to get more info.

Not sure why the "Key topic" is not part of the "collage." Not personally enamored with the brickyard layout of the collage, but it is fine and works.

Thanks, Logos.

Chris

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 3:36 PM | Locked

Chris...

I actually like the funky-ness of the topic graphic....pretty cool....(for windows users)

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 4:53 PM | Locked

Robert Pavich:

I actually like the funky-ness of the topic graphic....pretty cool....(for windows users)

It's funky - it's cool. But, I find it almost unreadable and there are real problems in the Hebrew font...

 

Posts 97
Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 5:11 PM | Locked

I'm a fan of the new way topics are displayed as well - But I'm having a hard time getting the point of "interesting words."

 

 

All I get when I click on a word is the verse that it is from?  Is that what it is suppose to do?  Since it is in the "passage" guide I obviously know what passage the word is fromSmile

Do I have somethings set up wrong?  I would expect the words to be linked to my Bible dictionaries or something not my default Bible.

 

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 5:20 PM | Locked

Greg, how come yours is readable? Mine looks like this:

Posts 97
Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 5:51 PM | Locked

Damian McGrath:

Greg, how come yours is readable? Mine looks like this:

 

Good question.  As I resize the passage guide tab, I get a different layout each time I run the guide.  When I returned the tab to the origional size I had it I got this:

 

 

Either way the layout displays - I find I can easily distinguish the words.

Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 8:11 PM | Locked

I have to disagree. It is pretty much unusable for me.

1) Light text on a light background. Why does Logos insist on making things unreadable. This is a text based result. If you are going to do this, just print white text on a white background. That way you could say you are done instantly. It would provide the same benefit.

2) Text running in multiple directions. Just print horizontal text. If I want the text to be vertical, I can always turn my monitor 90 degrees or lay my head down on my desk.

3) Text running over other text.

4) Text so small as to be unreadable unless the guide is opened up in a large window.

Things like this are ill considered. I pretty much cannot make out any words on the following collage.

If you insist on having this let users turn off the collage and have a text list like before.

In the next example, there is actually a word after "love". How is this supposed to be useful? This is really bad.

Regards,

Clinton

Posts 386
Clinton Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 8:23 AM | Locked

Clinton Thomas:

In the next example, there is actually a word after "love". How is this supposed to be useful? This is really bad.

On the small fonts. No text display should be smaller than the font size I have specified in my preferences.I have set that size to be something I can see.  In the above example 3 out of the 4 words displayed are smaller than that setting.

 

Posts 24454
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 2:32 PM | Locked

It  looks like something I should show to a child - try and find the words.

Sorry but No No No No No

Suggestion - have the colours and readable font in a normal horizontal format.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 1:43 AM | Locked

Dave,

The thing is...it's visually creative, but is it "serious bible exegesis" sort of material?

that's the question that someone asked that I keep coming back to...what does V4 want to be?

1.) A serious study tool so those who use "that other unnamed bible software" for "serious exegetical" work won't feel the need nor have to...

OR

2.) A pretty good tool that's all things to all people...?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 1:53 AM | Locked

Or Robert can it try to be both a serious tool and a creative one? I think it can do both. Give us a stock standard topics tool in the system defined passage guide AND give us the ability to add a "wordle" like output if we want it for a graphic. I don't mind the fun stuff but don't take away the serious...

Posts 26014
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 1:59 AM | Locked

Robert Pavich:

1.) A serious study tool so those who use "that other unnamed bible software" for "serious exegetical" work won't feel the need nor have to...

OR

2.) A pretty good tool that's all things to all people...?

One thing that I have to keep reminding myself - today's students are much more visually oriented than my generation. My college text books did not have full color pictures and didn't weigh 10 pounds each (okay, I exagerate). Although I was forced by my job to be an early adopter of cell phones (more convenient than a pager) when I get a new phone I still give some icons a blank stare. I resort to grandchildren or the manual (how embarassing). Don't ask me to guess which visual presentations will be accepted as "serious study tools" vs. those that will be archaic early 21st century curiosities. I doubt very much that Logos developed the visualizations; I suspect they simply plugged in to pre-existing software. I would further guess that the pre-existing software provides features we depend on as well as some of the 'fluff". Until it affects performance or maintenability, let the programmers' have a bit of fun with gee-whiz features.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26014
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 2:02 AM | Locked

How did you get your computer info to appear below your name on the post? A seriously creative question or is it creatively serious question.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 2:44 AM | Locked

Damian, Martha,

Yes...or give the option to do either...I'm good with that...

Martha...it's my signature; just put that extra in your signature block, that way when you report a bug, you don't have to include that info! It's for lazy people!

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 724
Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 9:33 AM | Locked

MJ. Smith:

How did you get your computer info to appear below your name on the post? A seriously creative question or is it creatively serious question.

Martha,

At the top of the page (right side) you should see your login name, edit and sign out.

Go into edit and then select "site options"

Part way down the screen is Signature.

Enter data there and it always appears at the end of your posts.

Chris

Posts 24454
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 6:20 PM | Locked

Damian McGrath:

Or Robert can it try to be both a serious tool and a creative one? I think it can do both. Give us a stock standard topics tool in the system defined passage guide AND give us the ability to add a "wordle" like output if we want it for a graphic. I don't mind the fun stuff but don't take away the serious...

LOL with your avatar, Damian, what you are saying only seems to be fun!

But yea, let's have an option for the kid graphics and proper text.

 

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 27 2009 9:38 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:
LOL with your avatar, Damian, what you are saying only seems to be fun!

I know. I said that it was only a 24 hour Avatar, but I'm not yet ready to let it go.

Posts 804
Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 28 2009 9:59 AM | Locked

I'm not sure Topics is an improvement.

Word clouds are intended to visually demonstrate prominence and frequency of data, so the Important Words pane is an ideal application of it.

Topics does not, to my mind, benefit from this approach as the underlying data are not related to frequency or count.

An all-horizontal diagram would also be better.

Posts 725
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 28 2009 1:44 PM | Locked

Greg Gray:

 

 

 

In interesting words, the different sizes of words imply that some words are more common in the passage or more important that others. In version 3 they used different word sizes to show the relative frequency of various translations of a Greek or Hebrew word. I had assumed this was the case here, but I tried it for a single verse and the words vary in size, even though they all are used one time. In order for a graphical display to be meaningful and not just pretty there should be some logic to the arrangement of words and the sizes of words.

 

Posts 26014
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:26 PM | Locked

Harry Hahne:
there should be some logic to the arrangement of words and the sizes of words

There is - the computer is simply following a detailed algorithm. However, just like compare versions the algorithm has not been shared with us.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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