Upgrading

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This post has 312 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 3942
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:17 PM

I know everyone can't get a discount, but is there anyway to assist your students who are knee deep in Bible college?

----

They do have a student discount program... I got a good deal on L4 JUST TWO WEEKS AGO. lol

It brought the 600+$ package to a more manageable 440+$. It helped I think that my salesman was a graduate of my seminary :)

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 183
Jacques | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:18 PM

James Macleod:

I think everyone needs to settle down and stop using emotionally charged language. Logos isn’t extorting us or throwing us under the bus. They are trying to get an upgrade out the door and want to make a bit of money for their labours. They have families to feed just like the rest of us and they are doing an excellent job on their product. I’m sure they are all putting in long hours tonight.

Logos will provide a cross grade option. They always have and they will again. No one will die tonight if they don’t get the upgrade. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride.

 

Logos charges more than any other by far. They could certainly be more reasonable and make plenty of profit for their good work and families. They actually encourage 'offer' everyone to use credit if you can't afford their pricing! It's all good to enjoy a good upgrade, but there is no way around it: they really stick the bill to ya, and Bob is not moved by our years of complaint. He continues to explain and justify the costs and yet every single person I know who uses their software, including Logos employees off record, agree that they simply charge too much.

Now that Logos 5 has arrived, I'm ready to pay to become a beta tester once again! I'd gladly move to Olive Tree or Accordance, but I can't escape the great public domain resources all in one place. I haven't a choice but to pay these prices, as these other guys don't have the library. They are all faster too! It's certainly a love hate relationship with these guys.. :/

I'm obviously not alone in these thoughts. It's my hope that Bob will read some of these threads and prayerfully consider changing all the pricing curves, especially on public domain resources. :)

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:21 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Jacques:
He feels they should be ashamed for this kind of profit-margin, it's not reasonable.

What would a reasonable profit margin be? What profit margin does your friend think Logos has?

For what it's worth, I got our third-quarter financials earlier this week. For 2012 so far, the Logos profit margin was just about 0.38%. (Not 38%. Less than half of one percent.

Now I'm not looking for sympathy -- we're fine. It's better than that most years, and the first three quarters of this year reflect a lot of investment in Logos 5 that hadn't yet generated any revenue. (That's what we're doing now!) I expect we'll end the year with solid single-digit profitability, and we've beaten that in the past.

But the point is, we have to sell something in order to be here to serve you into the future. It's insanely expensive to develop software, especially when you have to develop the same software on Mac, Windows, Android/Kindle, iPhone/iPad, Web (and now Windows 8 RT!) simultaneously. While offering free support.

So I'll take the criticism that we're always trying to sell you more books -- it's true, and it's the only way we get paid. Though, at every upgrade cycle, it does condemn us to a lot of impassioned forum conversations about the injustice of upgrade bundles. :-)

I do welcome your input on a solution. Maybe the "free software" concept was a bad idea? Few other products I have have been offering free engine updates -- in any form -- since 1995. I've bought Word, Excel, Windows, Mac OS, etc. many times in those 17 years. Should Logos just move to paid upgrades, and stop making so many books? (It might be hard to make that change after all these years, but it's an interesting question.)

I appreciate your investing in our product, and I hope that you'll continue to believe it has been a good investment. And I want you to know that we're working hard to serve you better AND ensure that we're here for decades to come to support the investment you have made. Input on how to do that is always welcome.

(My favorite idea... just convince every Christian in America to pay $3 per month... then we could offer everybody all the content, support, and continued maintenance for a very low price! The only trick is getting everyone signed up at once...) :-)

-- Bob

 

Bob, all of that aside could someone form Logos please address our actual concerns. i for one never meant my questions, anger or frustration personally. nevertheless I think I have a right to feel that way given the lack of information. 

 

Grace and peace.

Posts 28309
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:21 PM

Jacques:
It's my hope that Bob will read some of these threads and prayerfully consider changing all the pricing curves

He has already responded to you! 413124.aspx

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:27 PM

Dan DeVilder:

kind of a Spinal Tap approach: "ours go to eleven!"

Doesn't everyone's amp go to eleven? Wink Gimme Portfolio 4/5 and then some!  And crank the amp to 11.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 183
Jacques | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 9:34 PM

Bob, I really appreciate your willingness to respond.

I'm your customer, no doubt. I'm still hoping for better pricing on old out of print materials, in the meantime I still stand with you and am glad Logos exists!

By the way, I'll show my friend your response. :)

Posts 70
james e snow | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:02 PM

Well, I did a quick perusal of the upgrade on platinum package I own based only on the books not already in my library.  446 volumes @ upgrade price of $637.36.  Works out to $1.43 per volume.  And that doesn't include the various maps, photo, illustrations, etc. sets nor the data sets nor 111 issues of a theological journal. Count each of  those as a "volume" so works out to 574 volumes or $1.11 per title.

Big Smile  Hmm, $1.11 per title.  Sounds like price gouging to me.  Cool

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:04 PM

Reasons I've changed my mind on waiting for the crossgrade, going ahead with an upgrade:

  1. I appreciate Bob's response, more or less addresses some of my annoyances.
  2. I really want Henry Alford's Greek New Testament and this provides a good excuse and opportunity. Get it, along with lots of other stuff, much of which I don't care for but some of which I do (and the things I do add up to well over the upgrade cost).
  3. So, here's hoping the Logos rep I just emailed gets to work early so this Central Time fellow doesn't have to wait for you left coast people to start your normal business hours to process my Platinum upgrade. :)

Posts 483
Travis Walter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:05 PM

Also a bit confused.. I remember paying $440 for L3 scholars, then $820 or so for L4 Platinum, and another $2670 for other "stuff"  I still have L4 platinum since Porfolio seemed too much of a reach.

 

To get L5 plat, they want $595???  I guess I'm at a loss, what do I get for $595?   I'd pay $100, maybe $200, but $600?? Not sure..

Posts 9137
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:12 PM

Travis, welcome.

On the Logos Upgrade page there is a filter "New to You" that will list all the new volumes you will receive through the upgrade. Note that is will identify a multi-volume resource you own part of as part of your upgrade. It only counts the books you don't have toward the cost.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 8608
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:15 PM

Travis Walter:

 I guess I'm at a loss, what do I get for $595?   I'd pay $100, maybe $200, but $600?? Not sure..

Travis the upgrade page has a "new to you" feature that will show you what is new in the Platinum package. At that point you can consider the importance of those resources, or perhaps pick out just the ones you want and obtain them separately. But the upgrade page will answer your questions.

Mind you, it's not just the books that are included in the L5 upgrade. There are new databases with tons of information as well that were built for L5.

 

http://www.logos.com/upgrade 

 

And a few points to remember:

1.  You will always own the books you own right now.

2. If you own a package like GOLD JG,  you will ALWAYS own that package unless you upgrade to something else.

3. Even if you "downgrade" to the Starter Library, you will STILL and ALWAYS own all the books you own right now.

4. Scholars Gold JG is Just plain different than Gold L5.  Lots of different books and let's not forget the new databases. Perhaps it was a negative idea to re-use names. But what's in a name?

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 70
james e snow | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:17 PM

When you look at your custom upgrade page click on the "new to you" & note the symbol.  You will only see what's new (i.e. what's not already in your library).  See my post a couple of posts above yours for my cost per title. 

Posts 483
Travis Walter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:21 PM

Yeah I see the new stuff, it just appears my $2670 in other purchases, most of them are not in the new packages, so I'm not getting as much credit.  Is $600 for L5 platinum about normal or is it all over the place based on what you own?? 

It does seem after reading this threads, facebook threads etc there is a lot of people not too happy with paying this much for an upgrade.

 

And thanks for the welcome, been using Logos for 4 years, forum lurker, finally posted.

 

I am getting about 110ish new resources, if I counted correctly for $600..  Thats $5.45 each..

Posts 194
KPK | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:26 PM

james e snow:

Well, I did a quick perusal of the upgrade on platinum package I own based only on the books not already in my library.  446 volumes @ upgrade price of $637.36.  Works out to $1.43 per volume.  And that doesn't include the various maps, photo, illustrations, etc. sets nor the data sets nor 111 issues of a theological journal. Count each of  those as a "volume" so works out to 574 volumes or $1.11 per title.

Big Smile  Hmm, $1.11 per title.  Sounds like price gouging to me.  Cool

Ha! Agreed! 

I'm more than happy to pay this and support Logos business. Just blessed to have people who are willing to make a fantastic software, one that I use everyday. 

Posts 177
Alan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:28 PM

As a South African with a conversion of R8.60 to $1 the upgrade costs are prohibitively expensive. Was really looking forward to this upgrade. Will have to wait for the featureless minimal cross-grade option. 

Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:30 PM

Travis Walter:
Is $600 for L5 platinum about normal or is it all over the place based on what you own??

That's in line with the price I was quoted ($581.76). The price is good for what it gives you - lots of resources plus the databases which would otherwise cost a lot more. The question is whether the resources are worth the cost or whether it would be better to wait until Logos offers the minimum crossgrade.

Look at what the upgrade gives you that you don't already have, determine what of those resources you actually want, how much the upgrade would save you, and decide from there if the price is worth it at this time.

Posts 9137
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:31 PM

Travis Walter:
Is $600 for L5 platinum about normal or is it all over the place based on what you own?? 

That would be high for me. I will get 231 resources for about $1.25 each. I suppose the difference might be which resources but it seems high. (I counted every volume in a multivolume work as a separate resource to come up with 231. Did you do the same?)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 8608
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:33 PM

Travis Walter:
I am getting about 110ish new resources, if I counted correctly for $600..  Thats $5.45 each..
Looks like a deal to me. :-)

 

Travis Walter:
And thanks for the welcome, been using Logos for 4 years, forum lurker, finally posted.
Now that we know you're here, we expect you to keep posting. We're mean like that. Wink

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:41 PM

james e snow:
446 volumes @ upgrade price of $637.36.  Works out to $1.43 per volume.

Only if you truly want all those 446 volumes. If what you really want is 6 out of those 446 volumes, you get some really expensive volumes, and you lose out on the far more interesting volumes you could have bought for that money.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9137
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2012 10:46 PM

fgh:
If what you really want is 6 out of those 446 volumes, you get some really expensive volumes, and you lose out on the far more interesting volumes you could have bought for that money.

Yep. You can only spend that dollar once. No need for cheap books you don't want.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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