Chart of Logos 4 & Logos 5 Packages

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This post has 46 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 1659
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 2:41 PM

Sorry that I did not note that explicitly before. I didn't envision anyone going in there and deleting columns of information or highlighting rows of data for personal use that would be confusing for others trying to figure out.

For whoever made the highlights: I can temporarily revert to the highlighted version and save a copy for you if you let me know.

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Posts 98
Joshua Coady | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 8:44 AM

FYI ... via google search I found this L4 comparison chart still online: http://www.logos.com/products/info/comparison

Posts 1659
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 11:42 AM

Thanks for pointing that out. That's MUCH better than the PDF I was working from. I'll use it when I do a final line-by-line review.

Thanks also to Mikko for helping with merging items and pointing out some issues.

I've only been working on this in small spurts so it's slow going. But I have finally added in the boilerplate for the Catholic collections.

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Posts 50
john nerdue | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 12:13 PM

It would be nice to see the Verbum compared with the other L5 packages for those who want to buy a Verbum and a normal L5 Package. I was looking at buying a Verbum set to go along with my L5 Portfolio but would like to see side by side what resources are the same which ones would be new. Anyways, great job on this chart. Thanks

Posts 431
Travis Walter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 2:00 PM

It would be nice if there was a package to get the Verbum contents if you have a L5 package.  Without paying full price etc.. 

Posts 189
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Mike Estes - Logos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 11:03 PM

Travis Walter:

It would be nice if there was a package to get the Verbum contents if you have a L5 package.  Without paying full price etc.. 

You don't have to pay full price for Verbum if you already own an L5 package that has resources that are in the Verbum packages.  For example, the Verbum Master is 1349.95 yet if you owned Logos 5 bronze it's $839.28 or 38% off due to shared resources.  At least at quick glance.  You only pay for resources that you don't own.

Posts 48
Chris Rees | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 9:11 AM

 

Kent,

my brain was in overtime whilst I slept and you voted last night (I'm in the UK!!) Seeing as you are a LOGOS employee and discussing the upgrade website, here are some thoughts from a former Systems Analyst and Designer (excuse the big-head...).

The main issue is usually twofold, 1) appropriate information 2) clarity of the communication of that information.

Regarding the upgrade discount calculator I (and I believe others) would like to see 1) WHAT we are paying for 2) A breakdown of this info. Let me suggest the following

 

Based on these assumptions:

 

i) The comparison chart uses “Print value”, most ‘buy it separately’ books also do so, otherwise they state Regular price. I assume the base value for all calculations to be the Regular Price ie what we would pay for it if it were to buy it as a Logos resource and it was not on sale.

ii) New packages have their ‘regular price’ determined by the above method.

iii) Logos resources bought from other vendors are treated as above.

 iv) It is stated that we are being given credit for the books we own against any given package. I am assuming this is 100% credit of the value as stated above, whether we paid the full ‘regular price’, a ‘sale price’, ‘academic pricing’, whether as part of a library, bundle or collection, this to include items on pre-pub or even community pricing. IE If we got the resource at a discount, then we are not penalised for this

 

It is now very simple!!

 

1)     Appropriate information

Logos have declared a price point for each of the new libraries thereby offering a discount off regular pricing for the products bought as part this larger ‘bundle’.

 

In order to ascertain the ‘upgrade price’ do the following

a)     Calculate value of new library package using ‘regular price’

b)     Calculate value of books in this library pre-owned by customer using ‘regular price’

c)     Calculate ‘credit’ given for these books (assumed 100% as nothing stated to the contrary)

d)     Calculate percentage of value pre-owned

e)     Apply percentage value of pre-owned to new package price

f)      Apply any further discount, ie 15, 20, 25% of higher end packages; 30% academic discount to this price

 

2)     Clarity of Information

This is important so that customers can SEE what is happening. All information should already be available in the book database, so the only coding is really ‘display’. The coding for part-series is minimal. It should be noted that this only needs to be done for the items in the base libraries, not all of Logos’ resources.

 

a)     The website should indicate this information in the popup box for each base package

b)     Each line item should show: base package value, pre-owned resource value

                           Eg for NAC, I have 38 of the 40 volumes, therefore it might be $699      $630

 

 

This leaves Data sets and Features which are either FREE, ie available, but only used by resources supplied in the higher end libraries or they can be given a notional value which can be applied to the library value

 ============================================================

 

In summary, I truly believe that if this were done, ALL our questions would be answered, we would know WHAT we are paying for and HOW the price has been calculated.

 

I love Logos, and recommend it to my friends, including the Bible College I attend.

I wish the best for the company and there endeavours to be seen to be honourable. Nothing has been done to intentionally mislead anyone, however, appropriate and clear information on the upgrade calculator would have been incredibly helpful in this regard.

 

Blessing to all,

 

Chris Rees

Posts 34
Andrew Stewart | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 12:14 PM

On "Merged (Logos)" line 893 for A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG) , there should be Xs on Logos 5 Platinum, Logos 5 Diamond, and Logos 5 Portfolio.

Posts 1659
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 1:35 PM

john nerdue:

It would be nice to see the Verbum compared with the other L5 packages for those who want to buy a Verbum and a normal L5 Package.

I hope to be able to do some kind of merge sheet that shows all of the v4 & v5 packages from both product lines in the next few days if I can find time. I do now have the old Catholic packages as well as the Verbum packages added on their own sheets now. I just have to do the merges.

Andrew Stewart:

On "Merged (Logos)" line 893 for A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG) , there should be Xs on Logos 5 Platinum, Logos 5 Diamond, and Logos 5 Portfolio.

Thanks. If you take a close look at that one section on the original L5 sheet you will see quite a few differences. The pages on the Logos site are a moving target with things being added, removed, or moved to different sections. I started on the Verbum chart last night and between then and around noon today one section changed 3 times.

 

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 2:11 PM

Chris Rees:

b)     Each line item should show: base package value, pre-owned resource value

                           Eg for NAC, I have 38 of the 40 volumes, therefore it might be $699      $630

I wouldn't mind seeing that expressed as a percentage e.g.  10% new to me. Values invite comparisons which would require much more explanation. when the "regular price" was shown against items I was only concerned to know

  • is it new to me
  • exclude Data Sets
  • what percentage of the total regular price is my Upgrade
  • is that value for the books I really want
    • I'm paying 10% of the regular price for all books
    • the books I really want are worth  $650, but I'm paying 33% of that
    • I get nearly all the data sets & can live without the others

Not so easy to do now that prices have been removed from the popup!

Dave
===

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Posts 48
Chris Rees | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 7 2012 2:20 PM

David,

 

I guess I was thinking more on the "How much am I getting credit for?" - I can see your thought also...

 

 

Posts 1342
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 5:25 AM

Randy W. Sims (Shayne):

I haven't been able to keep up with all the posts today, but I haven't seen anything yet that shows all the L4 & L5 resources by base package all together in one chart. I was going to put one together, but I don't want to work too hard on it if it's already out there. Is there one?.

The chart, when completed, will be here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhAl790TopkhdHNsTnRLY1A2RU9OY3pDNHdqTHVpQ3c

Using your chart, looking at the NEW TO YOU titles from the upgrade page, and hovering over the titles for more info, I have identified the value to me of each of upgrade base packages.

Since I am not a pastor or original language user, the commentaries and reference titles were of primary interest to me.

It appears to me that the "sweet spot" for me is to upgrade from L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum for about $600. Although there are some titles of interest to me in the larger packages, they don't justify (to me) the additional cost. I would still be better off just waiting for a good sale price on them since they were not priority titles. I do plan to add the AYBD. It had been on my wish list and it's available on the customize button for a great price. 

Posts 1342
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 10:29 AM

Randy W. Sims (Shayne):

I haven't been able to keep up with all the posts today, but I haven't seen anything yet that shows all the L4 & L5 resources by base package all together in one chart. I was going to put one together, but I don't want to work too hard on it if it's already out there. Is there one?.

The chart, when completed, will be here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhAl790TopkhdHNsTnRLY1A2RU9OY3pDNHdqTHVpQ3c

Thank you for all the work you did in compiling this spreadsheet listing. It enabled me to analyze my options and make an informed decision about my L5 upgrade.  

Posts 8820
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 7:55 AM

Thank you for all this work!

Some notes on the Catholic packages:

The following are included in both old and new packages, but under different names:

  • The Cambridge Paragraph Bible
  • The Cambridge Paragraph Bible RI's (not even the same names as above!)
  • The NRSV Apocrypha RI
  • BHS/Richter
  • Swete's LXX
  • An Exposition of the Gospel of John / Luke

The following are included in both old and new packages, but under different [names and] headings:

  • The Lexham Greek-English interlinears
  • Aramaic Papyri of the Fifth Century BC
  • Apostolic Fathers RI
  • The Holman Bible Atlas

Note: by "included in both old and new packages" I don't necessarily mean that they are included in all such packages, just that they occur on both charts.

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Posts 214
Mikko Paavola | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 9 2012 12:08 PM

Hi!

I suggest that we could put the resources in the Logos 5 base package sections in the merged lists (for example, move the Merriam-Webster to the Preaching and Teaching section also in Logos 4 columns, etc). That would make it much easier to finish the merging process.

Another thing: It would be nice to have links to the individual resource product pages in logos.com (one extra column for that). I have collected links to most of the resources that are included in the Logos 4 Platinum an year ago, so that could be a good start.

 

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Disciple of Christ (doc) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 9 2012 12:23 PM

Chris Rees:
 iv) It is stated that we are being given credit for the books we own against any given package. I am assuming this is 100% credit of the value as stated above, whether we paid the full ‘regular price’, a ‘sale price’, ‘academic pricing’, whether as part of a library, bundle or collection, this to include items on pre-pub or even community pricing. IE If we got the resource at a discount, then we are not penalised for this

Chris this is an unreasonable expectation.  The price in the package is discounted already.  What you are suggesting could potentially lead to Logos having to pay a customer.  The credit given should be for the amount that resource contributes to the total value of the package you are purchasing, and not be a credit for 100% of the value of a resource if bought separately like you seem to be suggesting.  

Posts 48
Chris Rees | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 9 2012 1:11 PM

Andrew, I think you mis-understood the process I suggested. Logos declare a 'print value'/base value. They then discount this to offer the base package price, which may be further discounted via a special deal, so I am simply suggesting they could be open about what %age is being given. 100% is not unreasonable, last year they offered 100% credit for upgrades in base packages. This is against the base value of the package. 

 

EG Base package value £1,000, my books included £700. = 70%

        Sale price for Base package £500, my discount (70%) £350 = £150 to upgrade

 

Chris

Posts 4175
Disciple of Christ (doc) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 9 2012 1:23 PM

Chris Rees:

Andrew, I think you mis-understood the process I suggested. Logos declare a 'print value'/base value. They then discount this to offer the base package price, which may be further discounted via a special deal, so I am simply suggesting they could be open about what %age is being given. 100% is not unreasonable, last year they offered 100% credit for upgrades in base packages. This is against the base value of the package. 

 

EG Base package value £1,000, my books included £700. = 70%

        Sale price for Base package £500, my discount (70%) £350 = £150 to upgrade

 

Chris

Thanks for clarifying Chris.  Yes

Posts 214
Mikko Paavola | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 29 2012 7:56 AM

Hi!

I edited the Merged Logos table by comparing it systematically to the logos.com/upgrade -page. There was many duplicates. I hope at least most of them are now merged.

There is many resources, that has not the "This resource is new to Logos 5" -icon on them in the logos.com/upgrade -page, but that I couldn't find from the Logos 4 Base packages. They are marked with "Included in Logos 4 ?". I guess there's those "This resource is new to Logos 5" -icons missing in the upgrade page.

 

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 29 2012 8:42 AM

Randy W. Sims (Shayne):

I haven't been able to keep up with all the posts today, but I haven't seen anything yet that shows all the L4 & L5 resources by base package all together in one chart. I was going to put one together, but I don't want to work too hard on it if it's already out there. Is there one?.

The chart, when completed, will be here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhAl790TopkhdHNsTnRLY1A2RU9OY3pDNHdqTHVpQ3c

 

Peace to all!       *smile*                      These "spread sheets" are about all my poor old brain can handle!            However, I can figure out a few things and need to say a Big Thank You!           to you!

                   Seems to be right up to date, including today!   

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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