Logos 5 upgrade packages, prices, and policies

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This post has 15 Replies | 4 Followers

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Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:03 PM

Note:

I do not work for Logos, nor am I an MVP. I have no insider info, just what I've been told over the phone and via the forums. Just wanted to put some points together in one place that may (or may not) be helpful.

Also be sure to check out the FAQ provided by Logos and highlighted by Bradley (Thanks Lynden)

(Logos: it would be helpful to get official confirmation or correction on this)

 

  1. To start using Logos 5 right now without waiting, you have to upgrade to one of the base packages.
  2. Purchasing a base package will add resources to your current library but it will not remove anything. You lose nothing no matter which package you choose. Logos never takes away books you have already paid for.
  3. The restructured packages remove resources that Logos is no longer licensed to have in a package (Note: this means new customers will not get resources with the package that you got when you purchased it. You do not lose anything, but new users won't get some of the things you got.). They also add new resources (which means new users purchasing, say, Gold will get resources you did not get when you originally purchased Gold). One reason the prices are so high is because of all the new resources added to the packages (You will be paying a discounted price for just the new resources in the package).
  4. You can upgrade to the same package you already have. This will give you the new features for Logos 5 as well as any new resources for your package.
  5. You can, but do not have to, upgrade to a higher package.
  6. You can upgrade to a lower package if you are not interested in the new resources. This often costs less. Be sure to check the Comparison Chart to ensure the package you pick has the datasets necessary for Logos 5.Silver includes all but one dataset, Gold and above include all datasets.
  7. You do not have to upgrade to L5 to keep using Logos. L4 will continue to work just fine and will likely receive support for a little while yet.
  8. Logos has said they will eventually release the L5 engine for free. This means you can take advantage of the new software, though you will not be able to use the new features. The new features require the datasets that right now only come with base packages. Logos has not said how long it will be until they let people use the engine for free.
  9. Logos has said it is likely that they will eventually release the minimum crossgrade. I was told this would come after the introductory period for L5. Some have been told it will never happen. Main word, though, seems to be that this will come eventually.
  10. The minimum crossgrade will allow you to purchase just the datasets so that you can use all the features of Logos 5 without having to purchase additional resources.

 

Hopefully this is both helpful and true. :)

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:09 PM

It looks mostly right Chris. Good job. Smile

The one thing that I think is most confusing for forum members is the idea of upgrading. It doesn't matter what the name of the package you currently own (and which you will keep all of the resources). When you upgrade to a new, L5 base package, you can update to ANY package (even the cheapest one). The price of the upgrade takes into consideration the books you already own. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:13 PM

Chris, I will add this post from Logos. It is at the top of the L5 forum. It is amazing how many people miss it. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58176.aspx

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 446
Jonathan Sine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:27 PM

This is very helpful. Thanks Chris. 

Having already upgraded/downgraded, I am thrilled with the new features and resources! 

Jonathan Sine

Pastor - Squamish Baptist Church

2 Cor. 4.6

Posts 10130
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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:30 PM

Chris Roberts:

Note:

I do not work for Logos, nor am I an MVP. I have no insider info, just what I've been told over the phone and via the forums. Just wanted to put some points together in one place that may (or may not) be helpful.

Also be sure to check out the FAQ provided by Logos and highlighted by Bradley (Thanks Lynden)

(Logos: it would be helpful to get official confirmation or correction on this)

 

  1. To start using Logos 5 right now without waiting, you have to upgrade to one of the base packages.
  2. Purchasing a base package will add resources to your current library but it will not remove anything. You lose nothing no matter which package you choose. Logos never takes away books you have already paid for.
  3. The restructured packages remove resources that Logos is no longer licensed to have in a package (Note: this means new customers will not get resources with the package that you got when you purchased it. You do not lose anything, but new users won't get some of the things you got.). They also add new resources (which means new users purchasing, say, Gold will get resources you did not get when you originally purchased Gold). One reason the prices are so high is because of all the new resources added to the packages (You will be paying a discounted price for just the new resources in the package).
  4. You can upgrade to the same package you already have. This will give you the new features for Logos 5 as well as any new resources for your package.
  5. You can, but do not have to, upgrade to a higher package.
  6. You can upgrade to a lower package if you are not interested in the new resources. This often costs less. Be sure to check the Comparison Chart to ensure the package you pick has the datasets necessary for Logos 5.Silver includes all but one dataset, Gold and above include all datasets.
  7. You do not have to upgrade to L5 to keep using Logos. L4 will continue to work just fine and will likely receive support for a little while yet.
  8. Logos has said they will eventually release the L5 engine for free. This means you can take advantage of the new software, though you will not be able to use the new features. The new features require the datasets that right now only come with base packages. Logos has not said how long it will be until they let people use the engine for free.
  9. Logos has said it is likely that they will eventually release the minimum crossgrade. I was told this would come after the introductory period for L5. Some have been told it will never happen. Main word, though, seems to be that this will come eventually.
  10. The minimum crossgrade will allow you to purchase just the datasets so that you can use all the features of Logos 5 without having to purchase additional resources.

 

Hopefully this is both helpful and true. :)

Chris, this sounds near perfect, from what I understand. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2278
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:17 PM

Thanks for posting this, Chris. It is really helpful.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 5:26 AM

very good, Chris, with one correction. 

Chris Roberts:
Silver includes all but one dataset, Gold and above include all datasets.

There is one other data set above Gold. Bible Word Study: Septuagint Translation, which is in Platinum.

Posts 3
Sam Chong | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:37 AM

Thanks, Chris.

It's certainly very helpful! I am definitely going to hold back from upgrading for the time being because the features are nice but not 100 percent necessary. I don't want to get caught with "keeping up with the Joneses."

I hate to say it but I think Logos is also now following the rest of the (secular) world to get everyone to upgrade for commercial profit.

May God forgive me if I am wrong.

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 7:03 AM

Chris Roberts:
The minimum crossgrade will allow you to purchase just the datasets so that you can use all the features of Logos 5 without having to purchase additional resources.

Bob Pritchett, Logos CEO, posted => Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming! 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1963
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 7:16 AM

Jack Caviness:

very good, Chris, with one correction. 

Chris Roberts:
Silver includes all but one dataset, Gold and above include all datasets.

There is one other data set above Gold. Bible Word Study: Septuagint Translation, which is in Platinum.

Chris

Thanks for your post. 

Jack

Thanks also.  What you wrote explains why only 9 data sets appear under Gold.  Other threads have said Gold would give you all ten.

To all MPs

Thanks for your helpful posts during this transition time.  I am sure the same issues keep coming up on the forums.  A FAQ on L5 that compiles the answer can be very helpful.  As each day comes, all forum members with questions can be directed to it and when new questions come up, they can be added to the FAQ page.  This would save lots of time as well as MP fatique.

 

Posts 235
Tom Geswein | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 7:46 AM

One thing I would like to add to your list, from the way I understand it, is about "downgrading," which could be added to #6 in you list.  (Please correct me if I am wrong.)  Many  people seem to be upset that they cannot afford an expensive upgrade to the same L4 package that they have and they see that "downgrading" to an L5 package of a lower level is somehow unfair or robbing them of something.  Any upgrade that you purchase will allow you to keep all the resources that you currently own.  For example, I own L4 Platinum.  If I upgrade to the L5 Starter package, I still have all the resources I had in L4 Platinum, I get the L5 engine and a few new resources and for a quite affordable $37 (in my case.)  Granted, I do not get all the new Data Sets, but I still have a better package at L5 starter than I did at L4 Platinum - new engine, new resources and one new Data Set.  "Downgrading" is a misnomer that needs to be clarified.

From the upgrade comparison chart, Gold appears to be the necessary package to purchase to obtain all the new Data Sets, although I read in another post about a "tenth" one being available in Platinum, but I don't see that listed in the chart.  If anyone can confirm this, please do...

"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell."  -  Beyond Our Suffering - AILD

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:18 AM

Sam Chong:

I hate to say it but I think Logos is also now following the rest of the (secular) world to get everyone to upgrade for commercial profit.

 

May God forgive me if I am wrong.

Bob Pritchett, Logos CEO, has replied with a profitable observation (Income - Expenses = Profit) => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58162/414162.aspx#414162  Another reply => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/413124.aspx#413124 has 2012 profit insights (0.38 % so far this year):

Bob Pritchett:

Jacques:
He feels they should be ashamed for this kind of profit-margin, it's not reasonable.

What would a reasonable profit margin be? What profit margin does your friend think Logos has?

 

For what it's worth, I got our third-quarter financials earlier this week. For 2012 so far, the Logos profit margin was just about 0.38%. (Not 38%. Less than half of one percent.

 

Now I'm not looking for sympathy -- we're fine. It's better than that most years, and the first three quarters of this year reflect a lot of investment in Logos 5 that hadn't yet generated any revenue. (That's what we're doing now!) I expect we'll end the year with solid single-digit profitability, and we've beaten that in the past.

 

But the point is, we have to sell something in order to be here to serve you into the future. It's insanely expensive to develop software, especially when you have to develop the same software on Mac, Windows, Android/Kindle, iPhone/iPad, Web (and now Windows 8 RT!) simultaneously. While offering free support.

 

So I'll take the criticism that we're always trying to sell you more books -- it's true, and it's the only way we get paid. Though, at every upgrade cycle, it does condemn us to a lot of impassioned forum conversations about the injustice of upgrade bundles. :-)

 

I do welcome your input on a solution. Maybe the "free software" concept was a bad idea? Few other products I have have been offering free engine updates -- in any form -- since 1995. I've bought Word, Excel, Windows, Mac OS, etc. many times in those 17 years. Should Logos just move to paid upgrades, and stop making so many books? (It might be hard to make that change after all these years, but it's an interesting question.)

 

I appreciate your investing in our product, and I hope that you'll continue to believe it has been a good investment. And I want you to know that we're working hard to serve you better AND ensure that we're here for decades to come to support the investment you have made. Input on how to do that is always welcome.

 

(My favorite idea... just convince every Christian in America to pay $3 per month... then we could offer everybody all the content, support, and continued maintenance for a very low price! The only trick is getting everyone signed up at once...) :-)

 

-- Bob

 

Looking at personalized Logos 5 upgrade => http://www.logos.com/upgrade noticed delta increase for upgrading to Portfolio over Diamond includes new useful resources for my Logos library, which are less than 10 % of the regular price for individual purchases = awesome Big Smile

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:24 AM

Tom Geswein:
From the upgrade comparison chart, Gold appears to be the necessary package to purchase to obtain all the new Data Sets, although I read in another post about a "tenth" one being available in Platinum, but I don't see that listed in the chart.  If anyone can confirm this, please do...

Looking at http://www.logos.com/upgrade noticed Logos 5 Platinum includes feature: "Bible Word Study: Septuagint/Translation"

Also noticed Base Package comparison => http://www.logos.com/comparison has 15 % discount for new purchase of any package.

Logos now offers 5 Verbum packages => http://www.logos.com/catholic#compare

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 8084
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Looking at http://www.logos.com/upgrade noticed Logos 5 Platinum includes feature: "Bible Word Study: Septuagint/Translation"

Regarding the Septuagint Translation section, please see this post: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58242/414599.aspx#414599

Posts 30
Eric Fary | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 17 2012 12:06 AM

I would like to know the real price of the Logos 5.  Actually what the upgrade to 5 with all the perks is.  I own most of the resources in the upgrade.  I have already purchased at least 25 of the top resource collections prior to the release.  It seems they are punishing people who have purchased the most with the upgrade.  I would say that the $1200 I just dropped for the version 5 is about 85% books I already own.  This looks like an industry standard that they all got together and discussed at Bible Tech and others.  I see on Accordances website the same $1000 plus for the upgrade to 10.  Also, Olive Tree and other platforms.  I understand the concept of saving on new books, so why even buy the new books that come out.  Should we just wait for platform releases.  Logos made 35 million last year.  Isn't that enough.  Why do the prices have rise so much.  I have spent almost $30,000 dollars on this software since 2003 and I still am paying a high premium on everything.  Returning customers should be rewarded not punished.  I would like to see un update on their Master Plan, because it is starting to look like the master plan is all about the $$$.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 17 2012 1:04 AM

Hi Eric

Eric Fary:
I would like to know the real price of the Logos 5.

The price to you depends - as I assume you are aware - on two main things:

  • Which upgrade option you go for - one of the base packages, either of the "feature upgrades" (core datasets or minimal crossgrade) or wait until the free engine becomes available in Q1 2013
  • The resources you already own which are included in the upgrade option you go for.

All of this is outlined in the article at http://blog.logos.com/page/5/

Eric Fary:
I own most of the resources in the upgrade.  I have already purchased at least 25 of the top resource collections prior to the release.

Then this would reduce the amount you pay for the upgrade.

Eric Fary:
 I would say that the $1200 I just dropped for the version 5 is about 85% books I already own

$1200 would indicate the addition of a significant number of resources. Only the folks at Logos know how this is calculated in your particular case (this is true for each of us)

Eric Fary:
 I understand the concept of saving on new books, so why even buy the new books that come out.  Should we just wait for platform releases.

That is an option but there are a couple of things to think about:

  • Major releases seem to happen about every three years so it depends on how long you want to wait for particular resources
  • There are no guarantees that the particular resources you want will be included in base package upgrades

Eric Fary:
 I have spent almost $30,000 dollars on this software since 2003 and I still am paying a high premium on everything

Your previous purchases are taken into account in base package upgrades but it does depend on whether the resources you have previously purchased are in those resources. If they are then the price should have been reduced accordingly, if not then you were paying for new resources which seems reasonable.

Eric Fary:
Returning customers should be rewarded not punished.  I would like to see un update on their Master Plan, because it is starting to look like the master plan is all about the $$.

Logos have invested a lot of work and effort into the new features and capabilities of Logos 5 and reasonably expect to be paid for this. They are the only people able to comment about a "Master Plan" and Bob Pritchett has posted some useful articles recently outlining some of their thinking.

Graham

W

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