Hebrew Audio Pronunciations and Logos 5

Page 1 of 1 (16 items)
This post has 15 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 885
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 8 2012 2:00 AM

I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews, are they related to the resource "Hebrew Audio Pronunciations" here?

So what are the differences?

Thanks.

Posts 10126
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 2:09 AM

Kolen,

as far as I know this might be the same thing (have it on pre-Pub for a while). Unfortunately the Logos 5 page had/has a bug insofar that it doesn't display the indicator for the small handful of resources where licences are included in L5 but the files yet to come. If I'm not mistaken, I think Hebrew pronunciation belongs into that category.

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 885
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 5:57 PM

Can anyone confirm this? If so I would cancel on the preorder of that resource. Thanks.

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 6:10 PM

Come to think of it, I would like to know this as well. Will the Hebrew AND the Greek pronunciations be included in L5 at a later date?

 

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:05 PM

The Hebrew audio pronunciation is not done and has never shipped in any package yet. It is still on pre-pub.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:17 PM

Kolen Cheung:
I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews, are they related to the resource "Hebrew Audio Pronunciations" here?
Where did you see this?

The pronunciation tools on the upgrade page is clearly marked Greek. Where do you see Hebrew pronunciation in L5?

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 2764
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:18 PM

Bob Pritchett:

The Hebrew audio pronunciation is not done and has never shipped in any package yet. It is still on pre-pub.

Hi Bob;

Thanks for chiming in on this. Will the Hebrew Audio Pronunciation be included in the 1 or some of the L5 base packages once it is released?

I don't want to hijack the post, but I believe this will answer the original posters question as well.

Thanks

 

Posts 885
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 8:59 PM

TCBlack:

Kolen Cheung:
I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews, are they related to the resource "Hebrew Audio Pronunciations" here?
Where did you see this?

The pronunciation tools on the upgrade page is clearly marked Greek. Where do you see Hebrew pronunciation in L5?

"Pronunciation

Learn to pronounce biblical Hebrew or Greek with Logos 5’s pronunciation sound clips."

From http://www.logos.com/features#additional-features

Posts 174
Derek Browning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 15 2013 7:41 PM

Does anyone have an idea when this will come off of pre-pub?

Posts 27801
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 15 2013 7:51 PM

Derek Browning:

Does anyone have an idea when this will come off of pre-pub?

Please see THIS thread.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 18757
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 15 2013 7:52 PM

Derek Browning:

Does anyone have an idea when this will come off of pre-pub?

There have been lots of threads asking about this (do a Google search for Hebrew Audio Pronunciation site:community.logos.com).

Bob Pritchett has weighed in a couple of times in the past year. It doesn't look like this is going to be done by the first half of 2013 as he said in the first of these posts, based on his follow-up comment this month.

Posted Nov 30 2012:

Bob Pritchett:

I believe the last obstacle is gone, and this product should ship in the first half of next year. (Probably closer to the end of that half.) But that's a guess, not a promise!

Posted May 9 2013:

Bob Pritchett:

I looked into this, and it appears we've having problems (again) with the speaker getting started. We'd sent things out, but they never came back. We're going to find someone else, which will delay us. 

I've 'kicked' the project again, and hopefully we'll get it going soon.

I'm very sorry for the delay.

There has been one disappointment after another on this. I ordered it way back on Feb 5, 2010, and I know there are others who have been waiting since 2007.

I really hope this can be finally finished by the end of the year!

Posts 1
Reverend Kavin Bobbitt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 5:20 PM

It seems traffic on this conversation has ceased (nothing since May 2013).  Is there any new update.  I know we have Greek pronunciations but I still don't see Hebrew. Is there a new timeline for updating Logos 5 with Hebrew Audio Pronunciation?

Minister B

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 5:50 PM

Imagine having an "American Audio Pronunciation" and having someone from Boston be the voice. Or Brooklyn. Or Minnesota. Or Acadian Louisiana. Or Vermont. Or Georgia.  That's not too far from what someone trying to do a Hebrew pronunciation guide is facing. The main difference is that the Hebrew guide is far less likely to produce something that has any credibility. The main black and white part is Modern Hebrew vs. Biblical Hebrew. There is also Sephardi vs. Ashkenazi vs. Yemini vs. Babli vs. .... You get the picture. The upshot is that whatever they produce, you can guarantee one thing--it won't be right about 30-40% of the time at best. Imo, better to just forget the whole idea. Of course, since Logos can't sell "nothing", something will be made available. And immediately, thousands of Logos users will be inculcated on nonsense, convinced they are "speaking Hebrew".

Now, I've brought this up in the past, and there is inevitably someone who chimes in and says, "What does it matter how you pronounce the words?" To which I heartily reply, "PRECISELY--and especially if that is your attitude, why on earth would you want a pronunciation guide if it is meaningless in principle?" I don't think it is meaningless and pointless, but the one thing I think is a worst case scenario is filling lazy people's heads with a bunch of hullabaloo that they take to be "knowledge".

Posts 885
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 7:59 PM

David Paul:
Now, I've brought this up in the past, and there is inevitably someone who chimes in and says, "What does it matter how you pronounce the words?" To which I heartily reply, "PRECISELY--and especially if that is your attitude, why on earth would you want a pronunciation guide if it is meaningless in principle?" I don't think it is meaningless and pointless, but the one thing I think is a worst case scenario is filling lazy people's heads with a bunch of hullabaloo that they take to be "knowledge".

Totally disagree. One of the biggest barrier of learning Biblical language, IMO is related to pronunciation. The problem is we never learn a language silently. Especially if we want to learn a language naturally, the earlier we speak the better.

And from my point of view, how you pronounce it doesn't matter, as long as you can speak, and communicate. I personally think that reconstructing the ancient pronunciation is a waste of time, especially when people later found out modern Greek is closer to ancient Greek than the scholar's Greek in pronunciation. The point is we need to have a common pronunciation so that we can understand each other.

So it means that, an attitude of not caring what the precise pronunciation a word should have doesn't means we don't care how to pronounce it. What I am saying is that we need a common ground. We need a pronunciation, not necessarily THE pronunciation. And we need a pronunciation that is widely used enough, no matter if it is as you said 30-40% correct at best. Without this given common ground, we could be pronouncing words that 0% of other people could pronounce.

As long as what we said can be understood is ok. The logos users would understand each other, the other Hebrew speakers who knows the subtlety in the different pronunciation could understand us, probably. (Just like English native can understand poor Chinese accent.)

And to your final point, there's always people using shortcut to learn something and thought that they have mastered it. The lazy people you are talking about, or to me it is kind of arrogant. So my point is, even if the Logos' pronunciation won't appears, we won't stop them from doing it. Do you want them to preach an accent that absolutely no one is using, or at least 30-40% correct?

I have seen people pronouncing Greek in sermon treating them as English. So poorly pronounced, and many other brothers and sisters in the church copying it (thinking it is the pronunciation). Well, I know those elders in person and I don't think in that case they are arrogant, or lazy. They are just not equipped with the tools and resources for them to know how to pronounce it right (before one start to criticize if they should get formal Greek training, in China not everyone is that fortunate to have to opportunity to learn that). Do you want those less equipped keep pronouncing biblical languages in this way, or at least step it up to the pronunciation that is at least 30-40% correct?

I think my point is, before you criticizing it would never be perfect, let's start to make progress. And also, anything useless to you could be of great help to the others.

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 9:05 PM

Yeah, but this won't be your panacea, I promise. You will have to jettison most of what you learn and most of what you said is needed will never have come to pass. There is a small but significant move in Greek-speaking away from Erasmian pronunciation. Erasmian is the Greek equivalent of what you say we need in Hebrew--a pronunciation that is common to all but was never spoken by any Greek speaker in history. To what? A pronunciation that has been pieced together and is now beginning to be recognized as more like true Koine. What's holding it back? The good old Erasmian "common" tongue that is utterly ahistorical. In other words, what is widely known to be false but is most common among "Biblical" Greek speakers is blocking what is considered historical but is uncommon in usage. The irony is Koine means "common" and instead of it being used by most, a make-believe version of Greek is what is most commonly taught. If you think that is desirable, by all means, learn nonsense.

By the way, prepare yourself to pronounce Hanukkah like Kanukkah or Chanukkah (that's CH like CHina)...or prepare yourself to ignore the very pronunciation rules you are learning.

Posts 250
Edwin Sully PAYET | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 9:20 PM

Kolen Cheung:
I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews,

may be you could tell us how you got that so that we could see what you mean?

and with which Hebrew Bible version, do you have this particular feature?

Page 1 of 1 (16 items) | RSS