Can we change this forum....

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This post has 46 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 307
Michael Hite | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 28 2012 11:58 AM

In the last couple of years I have seen a big change in these forums. At one time, these forums were a great resource to learn how to use the software more effectively, to share ideas, help newbies, figure things out, and report bugs. I recently was confused by a "problem" I was having and some great guys in here helped me figure it out and learn to use the tool better (Thanks Kevin and Graham!). But when you scan the titles of most of the posts here that is not what this forum has become. While some of that still goes on here many threads have become "hostility fests". I understand some people are upset but venting in the forums is usually unproductive. While I appreciate that Bob and others from Logos monitor and contribute here, many things (demanding refunds, bad mouthing the company policies, complaining about changes) cannot be resolved by people in these forums. 

Can we get a forum focused solely on helping people use the software, sharing ideas and learning more? Maybe call it a learning center forum or something like that. This would mean having a separate forum for complaints and demands. Maybe it is a company feedback forum or something like that, but a separate place to argue pricing, upgrades, changes, etc...

Personally, I don't think Logos has done everything well in these situations but I believe this product is an incredible tool. It is also a complicated one at times and I would like to see us create a place solely dedicated to sharing knowledge and helping others learn to use this powerful tool more effectively.

Is that possible?

2015 13" MacBook Pro - 2 Ghz Intel i7 - 16 GB RAM - 500GB SSD - 2018 iMac Pro - 3.2GHz 8-core Xeon - both systems running OS 10.14.3 (Mojave)

 

Posts 1043
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 12:18 PM

Sounds like a complaint...

Is there something with the software we can help you with?

Wink (I kid, I kid!!!) Wink

Posts 307
Michael Hite | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 12:22 PM

William Gabriel:

Sounds like a complaint...

Is there something with the software we can help you with?

LOL - I guess it was a complaint :) good catch!

 

2015 13" MacBook Pro - 2 Ghz Intel i7 - 16 GB RAM - 500GB SSD - 2018 iMac Pro - 3.2GHz 8-core Xeon - both systems running OS 10.14.3 (Mojave)

 

Posts 2972
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 12:26 PM

You have some very good points.  I know I have been guilty at times of complaining, but I agree the forums need to be cleaned up a bit.

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

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Posts 2756
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 12:28 PM

I haven't been around long enough to know the Logos forums any other way, but I have to say that it is a bit unusual. I see it as just the personality of the forum, where you can start a topic of "Need help with library", and end up with a discussion of doctrines. Smile

 

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 12:43 PM

Michael Hite:
Is that possible?

Peace, Michael!                        *smile*                               I (and a significant number of others) have been with these Forums since the beginning and many of us also were very much involved in the old and very wonderful Logos NewsGroups, supplanted by these Forums.  It's surprising and a bit shocking to me how many people have posted to these Forums.  I am retired and have great difficulty in keeping up with the sheer volume of posts and need to find a way to "back-off" a wee bit!

              Thank you for your post, Michael!      Indeed!                I've noticed already that you seem to "have a heart" for our "community"!  I rejoice!

Is that possible?    You ask ......                      I think we could do a lot of improvement; and it will start and be strengthened with continuing very positive posts such as your post here.  A Good Post, Michael!                     You are encouraging us to do better; and I hope we rise to the occasion.  Hopefully others will also join in now and again -- continuing to encouraging raising our standards.

           I read a great devotion today on the Golden Rule (used the NAMBRE version - with clearly marked Golden Rule) before I compared it with a few other translations.

Pastor Ken Klaus, the former Lutheran Hour speaker, had a great phrase in the devotion -- I would call it "Sanctification"!              We could also pray for God the Holy Spirit to bless these forms with Wisdom and Peace                ...    and        whatsoever we need, eh???

The quote:  "After all, we follow a Savior who returned love for hate, healing for hurt, care, charity and compassion for sinners who had no use for Him. While we can never hope to copy the immensity and intensity of His love, we can still -- when we are given the chance -- do unto others as we want them to do to us.

THE PRAYER: Dear Lord, I give thanks You have given me salvation, rather than condemnation. Now may I, to the best of my ability, reflect to others the love I have received. This I pray in the Savior's Name. Amen."

Here's the devotion ...  hope you find it helpful ...        http://www.lhm.org/dailydevotionsprt.asp?date=20121127

                                                                                                                              Always Joy in the Lord!                         *smile*

 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 2848
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 12:53 PM

I am grateful for the forum, I have learned a lot  of things,using the software for my bible study, I am very thankful for those who have invested their time and energy to help me. But  some times I am not happy with the doctirinal and Poletical discussions on the forum.I think the forum is not the right place  for it, it would be better when we use the forum for the purpose it is designed.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 1:05 PM

It would actually be pretty simple, we just need a few more Forum categories and, Btw, I agree this need to be done.

Suggestions:

We need to split Forums between Windows and Mac as before.

We need catagories:

Bugs/Crashes/Fixes

Timeline

Clause search

Guides/Exegetical/Passage etc.

Visual filters

Titles/Resources

Notes/etc.

General Software/ Layouts

Verbum/Catechism etc.

Links to Video's/Training etc.

Something along this line I think would be very helpful for everyone, Logos included.

It's just too hard to sort through all the posts to find help that has already been posted and should not have to be done, over and over again.

Thats my two cents worth-smile-  this is not a complaint and I approve this message-smile.

Posts 307
Michael Hite | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 1:07 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
t's just too hard to sort through all the posts to find help that has already been posted and should not have to be done, over and over again.

 

I think these categories would be a great idea!

 

2015 13" MacBook Pro - 2 Ghz Intel i7 - 16 GB RAM - 500GB SSD - 2018 iMac Pro - 3.2GHz 8-core Xeon - both systems running OS 10.14.3 (Mojave)

 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 1:28 PM

Michael Hite:

Can we get a forum focused solely on helping people use the software, sharing ideas and learning more....

Personally, I don't think Logos has done everything well in these situations....

I think the forum, as a standard forum software platform, is OK the issue is is it being utilised effectively.

Point in case: how many forum postings were there during the peak of the Logos 5 upgrade where the same question was asked over and over. I lost track. How many people got frustrated because there was a dearth of information and they had no choice but to ask their question to get information they needed — and when it is a question of money we all know how 'sensitive' that can become. So if there was going to be (and there was) a lot of people asking the same question then why wasn't there a sticky post at top of the forum with full information about the upgrade process.

That posting should have 1) been made sticky 2) locked so only Logos staff could have edited the one and only post (NO responses from users) 3) updated by Logos staff as common questions came up "no Pastor X, you won't have to buy resources all over again", "no Father Y, you won't loose any resources", "Yes the best way to move to Logos 5 is a) upgrade, if you want to to get new resources, to a new collection THEN do the Crossgrade".

Then we have certain individuals who, really it would have to be agreed, have used the forum to vent their personal disappointment and invective that the upgrade is going too far / not far enough / why can't they still use Libronix 3 / why doesn't Logos rewrite Internet Explorer for Microsoft so it can still run software, that is, what 6 to 10 years old — how old is Libronix 3?! I think those conversations should be taken offline, the persons' issues addressed if they are valid, and those threads locked.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 2684
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 1:30 PM

plus "Spammers please (don't) post here" forum please

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 2756
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 1:35 PM

DominicM:

plus "Spammers please (don't) post here" forum please

I tried this in the past. I have been enlightened to learn that the Spammers may not be human, but just bots. lol

 

Posts 6473
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 2:03 PM

Tes:
But  some times I am not happy with the doctirinal and Poletical discussions on the forum.I think the forum is not the right place  for it, it would be better when we use the forum for the purpose it is designed.

I usually point them to Faithlife and suggest that they start a discussion there, and post a link in the forums. That way, they can debate until the keyboard wears out. Smile

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 2:20 PM

Yea Patrick, some of that might work, but we also have to remember some of the issues/complaints/confusion was real and honest, so, don't want to rope those off .

I have had a lot of experience with discussion forums over the years: from user to admin.

Too much "policing" either makes it worse or just shuts down everything.

Forums gather strange responses from people and are loaded with difficulties, while at the same time, being a great tool.

One of the "issues" is most of us write like we speak, or, write like we think. The Problem with that is we can have no visual and auditory cues to go with that. Conversationally, we take in a lot of data other than just the words. By Phone, we still do the same, but by less than half.

In forums, there are just the words, so often things are easily misunderstood, taken as harder than intended etc. etc.

Logos forums generally do pretty well. I too have vented many times back in version 4, sometimes posting well, sometimes posting poorly, sometimes just wrong.

People here have blessed me, tolerated me and, at times, just wished I would shut up and go away ( I feel sure-smile, and don't blame a single one either).

Yet, if it were not for these forums and the patience of Job in some folks here, I would have asked for my refund from Logos and long, long time ago in version 4.

I needed the resources I can get anywhere else, but was very, very frustrated.

People here helped, I stayed, now glad I did, things much better.

If I had been blocked out, could not vent, could not get the encouragement, Logos would have none of my money and I none of their product.

So, it's a two edged sword and moderators are certainly needed from time to time.

 

I really do think having proper categories would help a lot. Somethings would then be isolated to a particular catagory which helps keep things on track, does not spread problems and just keeps things neater.

 

Just my opinion and, again, thanks to all who put up with me last year and much of this one- you were helpful.

Posts 1907
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 2:48 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

We need catagories:

Bugs/Crashes/Fixes

Timeline

Clause search

Guides/Exegetical/Passage etc.

Visual filters

Titles/Resources

Notes/etc.

General Software/ Layouts

Verbum/Catechism etc.

Links to Video's/Training etc.

I think this is a great idea and would be very helpful...adding more categories.  Often someone may have a question that has already been addressed but cannot be found easily in the forum as it exists today.  If there were more categories, that would make finding specific questions easier.

Posts 3644
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 2:57 PM

I think we already have forums set up for the purpose of focus on Logos.

What we don't have is a "complaint" department---a way to channel complaints OUT of all the other forums...

I can think of 2 ways to make that happen:

  1. Preferred: rout it directly to Logos & keep it out of the forums.
  2. Less preferred: separate forum for complaints (and resolution, if any....)
Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:14 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

Too much "policing" either makes it worse or just shuts down everything.

Forums gather strange responses from people and are loaded with difficulties, while at the same time, being a great tool.

Not saying there should be forum 'Nazis' stifling all dissension (I, for one, wouldn't keep quiet that's for sure) but then on the other hand I would think that most would agree it has got a little out of hand during the upgrade period.

Also you didn't comment on my other points — that the existing standard forum functionality like sticky posts should be used more — to raise to the top important points so people would not (need to) ask the same questions over and over.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:30 PM

Yes, I think thats a good idea as well.

Yes, it has certainly gotten out of hand on many of the threads. Never before seen  a product release garner this much emotion.

 

Posts 10420
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:37 PM

Michael: Thank you for that post. One problem is that we have a few professional complainers—some of whom seem to be the same individual with many different accounts—who seek to sow discord. If only we could collectively ignore them, their "fun" would end and they would fade away. Having said that, I find some perverse urge to read those negative threads—I need help.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
we just need a few more Forum categories

Please no more forums. I feel that we have far too many of them now. It has become a chore to go to all the forums that do not interest me and mark them read so I can get to the ones that do interest me.

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 4:17 PM

Jack Caviness:

. If only we could collectively ignore them, their "fun" would end and they would fade away. 

Yes

 

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