How to re-write and release a replacement product.

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This post has 174 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 704
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 9:46 AM

Oh boy, here comes another round . . .

Is there a setting for ignoring a thread?

I'm too OCD to not click on the new blues in my list and feel trapped!

Posts 53
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 10:49 AM

The lack of PRA's SRA's and Keylinking is a serious weakness.    It is simply wrong to say that these features in L3 were so difficult to set up as to render them obsolete.  I began using LOGOS in January, within a few weeks I had set up many of my SRA, PRA and keylinking options (my background is in finance not computers).  These features make having a large digital library very useful.  I doubt that I will increase my library any further if these tools, or similar functions are not restored.

Bob I appreciate your desire to greatly expand the user base of LOGOS.  I think that this would be good for everyone.  Being a partner in a firm with 200+ employees, I get it.  But if my IT group upgraded my business software with software that was missing key features, I don’t care what their vision was, I would have strong words with them to say the least.   Additionally, in 25 years of business, every business software upgrade that I have made provided increased productivity, and more powerful features. 

Ken's points are valid, (even though he is a bit blunt in his delivery).   People who have legitimate complaints should not be brushed off and told to return their product.   

Mark

 

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 11:12 AM

Russ Quinn:

Oh boy, here comes another round . . .

Is there a setting for ignoring a thread?

I'm too OCD to not click on the new blues in my list and feel trapped!

This is the village and you're Patrick McGoohan.  Welcome to the village number 6.  Does anyone think that this thread is going anywhere?

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Moving Logos between systems / Detailed Search Help - ThinkPad T520: 2.4GHz i5-2430M, 8GB, 7200RPM HD, integrated video

Posts 68
Ray Timmermans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 1:00 PM

Ken Avery:

Basically, as a customer, I feel as though I am chasing a moving target hoping it will provide the same or better advanced functionality; I can get all the basic functionality from e-sword or the Word. (Disclosure - I use these products also for the content that is not provided by Logos)

I probably approach SW development different than you do; I developed my own SW methodology in the 80's and that is why I can crank out new products at the rate that I do. My background is working on embedded systems, writing Operating Systems, making new boards and bringing up the new BIOS, I wrote the virtual device code for Compaq's Insight Remote Management processor, custom web browsers, device drives ... etc. I have worked on various Operating Systems, Windows NT, ATT Unix, Linux ... etc.

Bob,

Put him on the payroll. I'd love to see a genuine upgrade from L3 in the same (read here non-WPF) format.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 2:30 PM

Ken Avery:

 

So if I appear to be a little ***, it is because 30+ years of 100% success tends to give one confidence!

Failures are often better teachers than successes.  imho

Posts 90
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 2:31 PM

Ken Avery:

James Macleod:

Ken Avery:

Time for SW school again Geeked

 I'm not sure that taking the mantle of some sort of SW guru is helpful to the discussion. I've been working in SW development for 20+ years and I've seen lots of development methodologies. Some work and some don't or some work in certain situations with certain teams but not in others. Your approach, though not bad, is a more old school. I think Logos is taking more of an Agile development strategy. I believe they are doing it right. They have done a good job moving to a totally new platform and I look forward to seeing what features they add to a really good core product.

 

Normally I would not answer a post like this because it is all about opinions and we all have opinions; though, I would like to make something clear, my methodology has been used to make Operating Systems, Databases and Database Applications, Device Drivers, network routers ... the list of successes is very long, the list of failures is exactly zero.

I have said more about development than I normally divulge; for those who disagree with me, you are disagreeing with 30+ years of 100% success. The reason I usually do not discuss SW development is because I prefer to keep what and how I do what I do to myself in order to maintain a competitive advantage.

So if I appear to be a little ***, it is because 30+ years of 100% success tends to give one confidence!

So I guess we agree since that was my point. Big Smile There are lots of different approaches and opinions.

Posts 37
Adam Crafton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 2:51 PM

I have said more about development than I normally divulge; for those who disagree with me, you are disagreeing with 30+ years of 100% success. The reason I usually do not discuss SW development is because I prefer to keep what and how I do what I do to myself in order to maintain a competitive advantage.

So if I appear to be a little ***, it is because 30+ years of 100% success tends to give one confidence!

 

Ha ha ha. . .so how would we go about validating your grandiose claims so we can give you the recognition you so obviously need?

 

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 2:55 PM

Adam Crafton:
Ha ha ha. . .so how would we go about validating your grandiose claims so we can give you the recognition you so obviously need?

Ken, please don't take the bait.

Various iterations of this meta-discussion have surfaced way too many times in this thread already.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 268
Ken Avery | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 3:10 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Adam Crafton:
Ha ha ha. . .so how would we go about validating your grandiose claims so we can give you the recognition you so obviously need?

Ken, please don't take the bait.

Various iterations of this meta-discussion have surfaced way too many times in this thread already.

True, I am just as guilty and probably owe one or two persons an apology.

As far as recognition goes; my boss already took care of it Wink

Posts 60
Jim Dunne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 7:20 PM

Bob Pritchett:

[The fun stuff always blows up on the forums when I'm on the road. :-)

etc . . .

Bob,

If you've tripped over a couple of my posts elsewhere, you'll know I've been a bit grumpy about Logos 4.  And yes, as a guy who's also spent decades (sigh, sad but true) in I/T, I do see merit in some of the things that Ken has pointed out here.

But having said that, I continue to be amazed and delighted that you take the time to read this stuff, and respond.  The fact that you pay attention to your customers (especially the vocal minority who take the time to read and post on forums), and genuinely seem to care not only about Logos Corp's success, but also about getting the Word out, and making It accessible, really makes me grateful you're the one steering.   

God bless,

Jim D.

Posts 2735
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 9:23 PM

Robert Pavich:
Does anyone remember their first reaction to the "time-consuming-amazing-that-it-had-to-be-done" ordeal that was known as keylinking?
ha ha... I am with you here.  I never had the $$$ to o to the special training for MP.  And while I can program in a couple languages, I always found KL confusing at best and never wasted my time with it.   I hope the future of Logos is far superior to L3 Keylinking.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 2735
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 9:28 PM

Robert Pavich:

Kevin A. Purcell:
Would you call excessively slow performance a bug?

 

Only if that was what defined the software but clearly....there are many users who have vastly different experiences....I'm one.

I have found it quite fast on my Mac.

 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 2735
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 9:52 PM

Mike S.:

As someone who works in software, and has worked in software for many (many) years in various positions (including developer of all the kinds of software you mention), I must say that I find your application of the "Laws of Upgrading" to be quite personal, and not in any way absolutes in the business of software. Don't get me wrong... good axioms... good approaches, but never what makes a "good upgrade." 

Your arguments actually remind me quite a lot of the arguments made by users (and developers) of text-based interfaces that were being replaced by "Windows versions" that were very much less productive, lacked the kinds of shortcuts that made greens screen users so darn fast. Frankly, they were right; and so are you. And they were wrong... and so are you Smile

Mike, excellent reply and summary to Ken's thoughts. I think your whole post and analogy was spot-on.  Your experience and expertise comes through.  Thanks for sharing this.

 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 2735
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 10:02 PM

Thomas, you can find some prepackaged compassion here... just not sermons. :-)

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 2735
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 10:06 PM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

Ken Avery:

 

So if I appear to be a little ***, it is because 30+ years of 100% success tends to give one confidence!

Failures are often better teachers than successes.  imho

Didn't a wise man once say, "if you have never failed it is because you did not try hard enough?"  hmm.. maybe they were wrong, but it certainly does show there are at least two sides to the coin...

 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2009 11:59 PM

Joe Miller:
Thomas, you can find some prepackaged compassion here... just not sermons. :-)

Joe,

please tell me those are not real....it seems that they are...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 7188
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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 6:25 AM

Joe Miller:

Thomas, you can find some prepackaged compassion here... just not sermons. :-)

Ick!  You mean I don't have to site by the bed at the hospital ICU any more? Ick!

EDIT:

Ok I just re-read and I think someone is going to read that and think that I mean it.  Notice the little barfy faces?  That means I'm disgusted at the idea, as disgusted at least as Joe's post which is linked.    In fact I consider it a joy that I get to help guide the Lord's children through those times, and I'd prefer to do it with my own poorly written hen-scratch writing, thank you very much.

Posts 268
Ken Avery | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 7:10 AM

Big Smile

Posts 3775
Forum MVP
Halo Hound | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 7:56 AM

Thomas Black:
In fact I consider it a joy that I get to help guide the Lord's children through those times, and I'd prefer to do it with my own poorly written hen-scratch writing, thank you very much.

I prefer texting compassion myself. How encouraging it must be to get a "Sorry 4 u" text at such a time...

 

 

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!!

Posts 268
Ken Avery | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2009 8:31 AM

Joe Miller:

Mike S.:

As someone who works in software, and has worked in software for many (many) years in various positions (including developer of all the kinds of software you mention), I must say that I find your application of the "Laws of Upgrading" to be quite personal, and not in any way absolutes in the business of software. Don't get me wrong... good axioms... good approaches, but never what makes a "good upgrade." 

Your arguments actually remind me quite a lot of the arguments made by users (and developers) of text-based interfaces that were being replaced by "Windows versions" that were very much less productive, lacked the kinds of shortcuts that made greens screen users so darn fast. Frankly, they were right; and so are you. And they were wrong... and so are you Smile

Mike, excellent reply and summary to Ken's thoughts. I think your whole post and analogy was spot-on.  Your experience and expertise comes through.  Thanks for sharing this.

Unfortunalty, this has been quoted out of context and does not make any sense; there is an assumption that Mike S. actually made an accurate assesment of what I said and that is far from true, I will leave it as an exercise for the student to figure out why Mike S.'s comments are irrelevenat in answering my post.

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