Logos 5 and Windows XP

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This post has 53 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 20 2012 2:22 PM

Bob Schlessman:

So why cludge up your fresh install with add-ons that aren't even necessary?

You just described the new Windows 8 start screen ... an add-on that isn't even necessary! Smile

In my opinion, Windows 8 isnt necessary. Windows 7 is the new XP Yes

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2012 2:40 PM

Dave Hooton:
It's a brave new world for MS seeing they have to appease the business world as well as compete with modern apps on phones and tablets. I poked around in the corners, used the Windows-key shortcuts and typed program names into the Run box for quite some time before deciding it was too unproductive for how I prefer to work on the Desktop.

I don't doubt that you gave it a thorough once over Dave. But in my experience I am able to do more with fewer mouse clicks and keystrokes and I suspect we use our systems for many of the same tasks. There are many features native to Windows 8 that required third party apps with Windows 7 and earlier. And we all know how those can clog up a system and hog resources. Additionally, Windows 8 boots much faster than Windows 7 did. In fact my older laptop (3-1/2 years old) seems like a new machine since I upgraded it to Windows 8 and don't even get me started about my 10 month old custom built desktop. I will probably hold off longer now before my next new build.

But it is all a matter of personal preference.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 24 2012 2:59 PM

John:

You just described the new Windows 8 start screen ... an add-on that isn't even necessary! Smile

In my opinion, Windows 8 isnt necessary. Windows 7 is the new XP Yes

The Windows 8 Start Screen is much more than that John. It provides several features not available from Windows 7 and the old Start Menu. And the boot time improvement over Windows 7 is considerable. I've upgraded three of seven systems in our household and I am yet to disappointed. Two of the remaining ones are my wife's and I don't mess with her systems until she is ready. The final two are file servers that don't need the features offered s and really have nothing to gain by upgrading.

But as I have said elsewhere, it is a matter of personal taste and preference; if you don't mind being held back by your OS. Big Smile

As far as Windows 7 being the new XP I guess that is true in that Windows XP was eventually supplanted by Windows 7 as the leading Windows version just as I believe will be the case with Windows 8 /Windows 7. Yes

Blessings,

Bob

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2012 1:19 AM

Bob Schlessman:

The Windows 8 Start Screen is much more than that John. It provides several features not available from Windows 7 and the old Start Menu. And the boot time improvement over Windows 7 is considerable.

several features not available from Windows 7? such as?

My new laptop has an Intel SSD in it. It boots Win7 from an UEFI partition in about 8 seconds. Win8 might be slightly faster, but 8 seconds is close enough to instant for me.

Bob Schlessman:

But as I have said elsewhere, it is a matter of personal taste and preference; if you don't mind being held back by your OS.

Held back? Can you name a single thing that I could do with Win8 that I can't do with Win7? I can't think of any.

Bob Schlessman:

As far as Windows 7 being the new XP I guess that is true in that Windows XP was eventually supplanted by Windows 7 as the leading Windows version just as I believe will be the case with Windows 8 /Windows 7.

Hey Bob, You completely forgot to mention Vista! Easy enough to do. And that is exactly my point. And XP has yet to be "supplanted" by Vista, Win7 or Win8. According to cnet XP still has 40.66% market share as compared to Vistas 5.8% and Win7's 44.69%. Win7 has a small lead now, but hasn't exactly supplanted XP yet. Particularly in businesses which still use XP as their primary desktop interface. XP still has a serious chunk of the market even after 11 years.

The fact is that Windows 8 is a tablet OS. The new start screen was designed for touchscreen devices. The only truly bold move Microsoft made here was to force this new interface upon purchasers of traditional desktop and laptop computers. Microsoft has used strongarm tactics like this in the past, but this time they are attempting to use their monopoly position in one sector to attempt to gain a foothold in another. It is Not likely to work.

Windows 8 will fail to make a dent with phones or tablets. Apple and Google already offer a well established product and Microsofts offering brings little that is new to the table. And it will fail with traditional computers because it eliminated the Windows 7 Start menu and made the desktop an afterthought.

Windows 8 offers zero true benefit to any traditional computer with a keyboard and mouse, and no touchscreen device.

Have a nice Christmas day Big Smile

 

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2012 5:21 AM

Windows 8 is more than a tablet OS but it does offer a sort of bridge between tablet and desktop.  It will remember settings from one device to another and does some other things that are pretty neat.  The desktop is still readily available (not an afterthought) too.  

If I had a windows tablet, I would likely love win 8.  However, since I only use it on the desktop, I find the RT apps to get in my way.  I like the third party apps better and if you have a powerful computer (I do) I think 3rd party apps are more versatile and useful.  

Most businesses run behind the technology curve because it's expensive to replace and upgrade and they want to get the most they can out of their current investments.  

All that being said:  I do personally like Windows 7 best.  It's as quick as XP with great security features and very nice bells and whistles.  Windows 8 follows this tradition and is a fine OS.  Once again though, if I only intended to use it on the desktop, I would just stay at Win 7.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2012 6:47 AM

John:
Windows 8 offers zero true benefit to any traditional computer with a keyboard and mouse, and no touchscreen device.

In your opinion. But I have found numerous benefits and none of my systems are touch screen devices.

John:
And XP has yet to be "supplanted" by Vista, Win7 or Win8. According to cnet XP still has 40.66% market share as compared to Vistas 5.8% and Win7's 44.69%.

Sure, when you survey systems already out there and in use. Those are not new sales figures. Before Windows 8's release how many new systems or new custom builds had Windows XP installed? Probably very close to zero. Thus Windows XP was supplanted by Windows 7. The same will happen with Windows 8 / Windows 7. Comparing Windows 8 to Windows Vista is comparing apples and oranges. Vista was sluggish, crash prone, and had issues with hardware compatibility on many fronts. Not so with Windows 8. The most common complaint is "They took away the Start Menu! Waaahhhh!" Big Smile

 I guess that is a non-issue for me and I have seen many people change their opinions after giving Windows 8 a real workout.

 

John:
several features not available from Windows 7? such as?

I didn't state this clearly. What I meant was faster ways to accomplish the same tasks as compared to the start menu;  i.e. the ability to perform many tasks with a simple shortcut key combo that took several clicks and pokes in Windows 7.

There are several other points you've attempted to make but I have a turkey to get into the oven. We could go back and forth from now until the second coming and most likely, neither of us would change his position. So let's just agree to disagree.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you my friend!Wink

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2012 1:07 PM

Bob Schlessman:

I have a turkey to get into the oven.

You have a turkey installed on your computer too. Enjoy your turkey Big Smile

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 25 2012 5:55 PM

John:

You have a turkey installed on your computer too. Enjoy your turkey Big Smile

Once again, merely your opinion.

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 5:15 PM

Bob Schlessman:

Once again, merely your opinion.

 I thought it was already quite obvious that both sides of this discussion were merely opinions Smile

If we were pointing out FACTS, I might mention that Steve Sinofsky, the guy responsible for removing the Start Menu and hiding the desktop, was fired several days after the release of Windows 8.

I would also have to mention that Windows 8 sales are already trailing Windows 7 sales for the same period last year, in spite of the fact that Windows 8 upgrades were practically given away at $15 each.

I might also mention that there are now at least 30 different companies offering replacement Start Menus for Windows 8, several of them reporting over a half-million users the 6 weeks following the launch of Windows 8. Stardocks Start8, which sells for $5, had already sold "tens of thousands of copies".

Some statistics of Windows 8 users:

11 percent of users disabled all hot corners on the new Start Screen
21 percent set their machines to boot to the Desktop
26 percent enable Windows to leave the Metro UI
27 percent disable the left hot corner.

As you can see, in order to make the interface usable basically involves disabling all or most of the new features. This is exactly what would be expected when you consider that the Windows 8 interface is not designed to be a desktop operating system. It is designed for tablets and phones with touchscreen interfaces.

Windows 8 requires reconfiguring, tweaking and 3rd party software just to achieve the same ease of productivity found natively in Windows 7.

I predict a Windows 8 service pack soon that includes the easy choice whether to use the new tablet touchscreen interface or the desktop. Microsoft might resist this a little while longer until it becomes painfully clear that desktop and laptop uses arent buying it, but it will come.

I think I will just stick with Windows 7. A quick google will reveal that most IT professionals are doing the same thing Cool

 

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 7:04 PM

John:
I think I will just stick with Windows 7

That's nice John. Good for you.

Have a good life my friend

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 7:11 PM

John:

11 percent of users disabled all hot corners on the new Start Screen
21 percent set their machines to boot to the Desktop
26 percent enable Windows to leave the Metro UI

27 percent disable the left hot corner.

And I contributed to all of those stats (strictly, I only disabled the hot corners on the Desktop because I don't see the Modern UI)!

John:
If we were pointing out FACTS, I might mention that Steve Sinofsky, the guy responsible for removing the Start Menu and hiding the desktop, was fired several days after the release of Windows 8.

Significantly, he also simplified Task Manager and gave File (aka Windows) Explorer the ribbon menu, and improved enterprise features whilst only excluding .NET 3.5 and Media Centre (because only 6% of Windows 7 users ever launched Media Centre - which is only 24 million people!). So there is more than a hint of an each-way bet regarding desktop applications vs. modern apps.

 

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 397
John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 8:16 PM

Dave Hooton:

So there is more than a hint of an each-way bet regarding desktop applications vs. modern apps.

I'm sure there was a lot of fighting within Microsoft. (Sinofsky won, but then got fired. Is that still a win?) Something like the Ribbon in Explorer really doesn't make it more usable on a touchscreen does it? The rationale behind eliminating the Start menu (according to Sinofsky) was that it was not optimized for touchscreens ... but isnt that also true of all traditional Windows software, and the entire Desktop?

Regarding "modern apps". Since I am an old hacker that started Assembly and C programming way back when those were considered modern, Its strange to me that many today think taking great leaps backwards is the modern thing to do. I guess we are supposed to toss out all of our high performance code and write small apps that use HTML for the interface now.

The only thing stranger than how Microsoft seems to be doing its best to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, is the small number who have embraced the change and are pretending it is for their own benefit. Ballmer isnt too bright when it comes to computers, but he is money smart. He will find a way to fix this mess quickly when the sales numbers plunge. Oh wait, they already have Surprise

Things that will not be obsolete anytime soon: Mouse, Keyboard, and Desktops with hardware accelerated graphics, Start Menus and taskbars Cool

Posts 1
Jim Ennis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 10 2013 5:41 AM

I guess what bothers me about it not loading is that when I open Logos I am bombarded by advertisements to upgrade.  When you go to the upgrade screen you have to search through to find the OS requirements.  These should be posted front and center.  If Logos knew that there was a problem they should have been much more upfront with it.  I have found the software to be very cumbersome in a lot of ways and very time consuming for upgrades.  Many in the ministry, who cannot afford to upgrade OS due to economic reasons, new have a software they will never be able to upgrade.  For one that makes me feel a bit ripped off.  Why doesn't Logos put come programers to work trying to find a fix instead of alienating many of its users and just using the same old "blame Microsoft" excuse.  I use a lot of other software's for work and ministry and have not had a single one, to date, not be compatible with the OS they sold me the original software to run on. 

Jim

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 10 2013 9:18 PM

Jim Ennis:

I guess what bothers me about it not loading is that when I open Logos I am bombarded by advertisements to upgrade.  When you go to the upgrade screen you have to search through to find the OS requirements.  These should be posted front and center.  If Logos knew that there was a problem they should have been much more upfront with it.  I have found the software to be very cumbersome in a lot of ways and very time consuming for upgrades.  Many in the ministry, who cannot afford to upgrade OS due to economic reasons, new have a software they will never be able to upgrade.  For one that makes me feel a bit ripped off.  Why doesn't Logos put come programers to work trying to find a fix instead of alienating many of its users and just using the same old "blame Microsoft" excuse.  I use a lot of other software's for work and ministry and have not had a single one, to date, not be compatible with the OS they sold me the original software to run on. 

Jim

Welcome Big Smile

Logos has Home Page customization so content with advertisements can be unchecked.

Looking forward to Logos 5 free engine being available soon.  Thankful for Logos blog article => http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/

Apologies: have experienced a number of software upgrades by a variety of vendors that require newer operating systems.

Keep Smiling Smile

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