BUG: Search not working when question mark included

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Feb 8 2013 3:10 AM

I was doing some searching last night and I discovered what appears to be a problem. I am looking at here, the book "The Jesus I Never Knew" by Philip Yancey. I was doing searches and not finding the verse I was looking for; actually I was doing this on my iPad. So I figured there must be a problem with the iPad app, and I tried this morning on my desktop (5.0b). If you notice the picture, the search finds no results even though it should have found at least 1! I tried typing the phrase, I tried copying it from the resource.  Search is supposed to work in eBooks, correct? This is a Vyrso eBook.

Note if I search for just a word, like "missed" (no quotes), it works.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 3:12 AM

OK I just tried a few other eBooks and search works fine - it's just this one. Is the resource broken?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 3:19 AM

Don Awalt:
Search is supposed to work in eBooks, correct?

Yes it should

Don Awalt:
I tried typing the phrase, I tried copying it from the resource.

What happens if you select the phrase in the resource, right-click and choose "search this resource"?

It sounds like it might be an indexing problem - but a strange one.

It will be interesting to see if others with the resource get the same problem. I don't have it so can't check

 

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 3:51 AM

Graham Criddle:
What happens if you select the phrase in the resource, right-click and choose "search this resource"?

Ah, excellent tip to try! I did, and it also comes up with 0 results! Something is definitely broken. I wonder if there is a way to figure out if it is a bug or a bad resource?

I recall that I have the same problem on my iPad, does that mean the resource is bad on the server? Or maybe a bug that is in both versions?

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 3:55 AM

Some phrases work, some do not. I found one place where if I highlight the complete sentence, which includes a question mark, it fails; leave out the question mark, it succeeds.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:02 AM

Don Awalt:
I recall that I have the same problem on my iPad, does that mean the resource is bad on the server? Or maybe a bug that is in both versions?

If it was only on the desktop, I'd have suspected a bad index or download (in this case, hiding the book, restarting Logos [possibly even verifying deletion of the *.logos4-file], unhiding the book thus forcing redownload and re-index), but since you saw the issue on the pad it may well be that the original resource file is somehow broken. Note that these are ePub-files Logos gets from the publisher and treats only in automated run with a modified version of the PB compiler.  

To narrow this down, if you like, try to give less information to the search, such as leaving off the questionmark or searching for the words of the sentence, not the phrase. Maybe there's a non-printing character somewhere in the spaces of the sentence. Or the questionmark is another UNICODE-character. looking same but having another internal number than the one you type in (we had issues with straight and curved quote markers in the past).   

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:03 AM

Don Awalt:
I recall that I have the same problem on my iPad, does that mean the resource is bad on the server? Or maybe a bug that is in both versions?

At least it suggests it isn't an indexing problem in your Logos 5 environmentSmile

My guess is that it is a resource problem but I wouldn't know how to prove that.

Hopefully someone else with the resource can verify or Logos may comment later.

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:07 AM

Don Awalt:

Some phrases work, some do not. I found one place where if I highlight the complete sentence, which includes a question mark, it fails; leave out the question mark, it succeeds.

Your post wasn't there when I posted mine above. Seems the questionmarks are the culprit. Can you verify this against another resource - or two, such as a Vyrso book and a regular Logos resource?

Then we'd know if phrase search is broken everywhere for phrases with a questionmark in it (serious bug!) or only for specific representations of questionmarks such as in this resource or in the Vyrso books. 

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:16 AM

Hi Mick

NB.Mick:

Your post wasn't there when I posted mine above. Seems the questionmarks are the culprit. Can you verify this against another resource - or two, such as a Vyrso book and a regular Logos resource?

Then we'd know if phrase search is broken everywhere for phrases with a questionmark in it (serious bug!) or only for specific representations of questionmarks such as in this resource or in the Vyrso books.

Good questions - and it looks like question mark searches don't work in either type of resource. The first screenshot is from a Vyrso book, the second is from a Logos book

 

 

 

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:18 AM

Yes, good job! It appears the question mark breaks searches! I too tried about 5 Vyrso books and no search with a question mark works, search this resource without the question mark and it finds it. 

And it DOES seem like ? breaks full Logos resources too! Yikes!!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:21 AM

Hang on - just worked out what is going on hereSmile

The question mark is being treated as a wildcard character

See http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Wildcards which states

"A ? stands for one character in a word. So s?n would find sin, son and sun. It cannot mean zero characters, so neighbo?r would find neighbour, but not neighbor."

So since there isn't a character where the "?" is the search doesn't match.

So it is working as designed - if not as expected

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:31 AM

Graham Criddle:

Hang on - just worked out what is going on hereSmile

The question mark is being treated as a wildcard character

See http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Wildcards which states

"A ? stands for one character in a word. So s?n would find sin, son and sun. It cannot mean zero characters, so neighbo?r would find neighbour, but not neighbor."

So since there isn't a character where the "?" is the search doesn't match.

So it is working as designed - if not as expected

No, that's not the reason, since wildcard characters don't (or at least should never ever) work inside phrases. And of course there is a character where the ? is in the search phrase: the questionmark.

I played a bit with the search in biblia, confirming what you found, too. Since I seemed to remember information from long ago that the Logos index doesn't include punctuation at all, I tried with periods. Actually Logos will find the sentence with a period. I will find it as well if you omit the period (or the questionmark) and have a search string where the punctuation is inside the string. But it won't act on the questionmark as if it was a wildcard and it will give zero hits always.

 

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:34 AM

NB.Mick:
Since I seemed to remember information from long ago that the Logos index doesn't include punctuation at all, I tried with periods. Actually Logos will find the sentence with a period

I had seen this too - I did searches with semi-colons etc. and I noticed the result come back correctly, but the semi-colon was not highlighted, as if it was ignored in the search.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:39 AM

Don Awalt:

NB.Mick:
Since I seemed to remember information from long ago that the Logos index doesn't include punctuation at all, I tried with periods. Actually Logos will find the sentence with a period

I had seen this too - I did searches with semi-colons etc. and I noticed the result come back correctly, but the semi-colon was not highlighted, as if it was ignored in the search.

You may omit the punctuation or have it inside - both ways find the hit. But if you include a questionmark it will give zero results. You should change the thread title to sart with "BUG:" to alert Bradley or another Logos-employee when they screens the forum posts. 

 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:41 AM

NB.Mick:
No, that's not the reason, since wildcard characters don't (or at least should never ever) work inside phrases. And of course there is a character where the ? is in the search phrase: the questionmark.

But the question mark - as a wildcard character - does work inside phrases. See the example below (just taken at random from a book I am reading)

Here the "?" is matching the "n"

NB.Mick:
Since I seemed to remember information from long ago that the Logos index doesn't include punctuation at all,

Yes, this is key information.

NB.Mick:
But it won't act on the questionmark as if it was a wildcard and it will give zero hits always.

Because - as the wiki article states - " It cannot mean zero characters" and so because there isn't a character immediately after the rest of the phrase it won't find a hit.

I think it makes senseSmile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:43 AM

Don Awalt:
I had seen this too - I did searches with semi-colons etc. and I noticed the result come back correctly, but the semi-colon was not highlighted, as if it was ignored in the search.

Yes punctuation is not searchable - as discussed at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22626.aspx (and probably elsewhere)

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 4:46 AM

Graham Criddle:

NB.Mick:
But it won't act on the questionmark as if it was a wildcard and it will give zero hits always.

Because - as the wiki article states - " It cannot mean zero characters" and so because there isn't a character immediately after the rest of the phrase it won't find a hit.

I think it makes senseSmile

No it doesn't. If it means one character and ? is omitted, the questionmark should resolve the subsequent space as a hit.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 5:20 AM

NB.Mick:
You should change the thread title to sart with "BUG:" to alert Bradley or another Logos-employee when they screens the forum posts. 

 

I did, thanks!

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 8 2013 5:36 AM

Okay.

From testing a bit more on biblia (I'm not at my Logos-PC right now) it seems, the bug might be described as

While the questionmark works as a wildcard to find one character (counterintuitively even within phrases), it doesn't work when the respective position is an omitted punctuation character (such as a questionmark!) i.e. would be the subsequent character after the omitted punctuation.

At least in biblia, it seems to be buggy regardless of phrase or non-phrase, and the omitted character may as well be another, such as a colon. Maybe someone can confirm this is implemented in L5 likewise. And we wait for Bradley to turn on the light.

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 9 2013 3:45 AM

NB.Mick:
While the questionmark works as a wildcard to find one character (counterintuitively even within phrases),

Logos does not index punctuation characters, and they are ignored during a search  e.g. "lord jesus christ" will find "Lord, Jesus Christ" in 1 Cor 8:6 (ESV). If you try to search for "lord, jesus christ" the comma is also ignored and you get the same results as before. If you search for "lord? jesus christ" you get zero results because the search engine is looking for a single non-punctuation character immediately after "lord"  e.g. "lords jesus christ".

If you search for "lord ? jesus christ" the engine is looking for a one character word (e.g. "a") following lord, and fails. But a search for "lord ??? christ" will find "lord and christ" because it is looking for a 3 character word following lord.

Now, whilst "lord? jesus christ" failed, a search for "lord* jesus christ" will succeed, giving the same results as "lord jesus christ" in this case. The * wildcard looks for a sequence of zero or more non-punctuation characters.

I trust that illustrates the purpose of a wildcard in a phrase (a wildcard character won't match punctuation!).

The engine does allow matches where punctuation is part of a word e.g. enter God and you will see a suggestion for God's. One will search strictly for "God", the latter will look only for "God's". Match all word forms will search for both (as well as "gods").

Finally,  Lord BEFORE 3-3 CHARS “Jesus Christ” will find only “Lord, Jesus Christ” (in ESV) because the CHARACTER proximity (exactly 3 chars) includes the comma! Ergo,  Lord BEFORE 2 CHARS “Jesus Christ” will find  “Lord Jesus Christ” (without the comma).

EDIT: (subtle refinement)

Wildcard will search for apostrophe when part of a word e.g  God?s will find God's

Dave
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