Please Logos Synchronize PBBs.

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Tes | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 23 2013 9:53 AM

Logos has promised Synchronization of PBBs on other devices long ago.I don't know why it has taken so long. It would be very nice, so that we may be able to enjoy reading our personal books on our mobile devices as well.

Blessings in Christ.

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 9:56 AM

Yes please. I am with you Tes on that. I would really like to have this feature. Most of my reading is done on iPad. It would really be great to have our PB books synced.

Bohuslav

Posts 3019
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 10:16 AM

Tes:
Synchronization of PBBs
 

Yes! Yes

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 10:54 AM

Tes:
I don't know why it has taken so long.

I am in full agreement in your desire to see personal books sync… I'll take a shot at answering "why so long." 

When you purchase a resource from Logos, they have it on their servers. The neat trick is that Logos can have ONE copy of the resource (with redundancies for backups of course) and THOUSANDS can have access to the one file (with the appropriate licenses). Personal books flips this around. A single book may require THOUSANDS of files stored on the Logos servers (one for each user… the files all being user created / owned and perhaps slightly different). As you can imagine, this isn't a cheap undertaking for Logos. This isn't simply a matter of making the software work… there are financial and legal considerations… And I haven't even mentioned the possibility of legal troubles for Logos if customers upload resources improperly (copyright issues  - without publisher permission). There are other potential solutions: Perhaps Logos could allow users to use their own personal DROPBOX account (or similar service). I think this might be a great option… but there are some drawbacks:

  1. It would be more complicated for end users. (Do you know how to use dropbox?)
  2. It would add significantly to support issues. (Most users would likely need help). This could be costly for Logos as well. 
  3. If they choose Dropbox (or another provider), what happens if it goes out of business?
  4. Would there be a cost to Logos to allow L5 Dropbox access? (I don't know)
  5. What happens if Dropbox (or another provider) changes terms of service? There would certainly be MANY unhappy Logos users… who would be angry with Logos!

I hope I am wrong about these hurdles… I really would like to see my personal books on my iPad as well. But I am not holding my breath for its immediate release… I will, however, jump up and down for joy with y'all when the day comes. Big Smile

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Posts 292
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 10:54 AM

Yes

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 11:43 AM

alabama24:
I hope I am wrong about these hurdles… I really would like to see my personal books on my iPad as well. But I am not holding my breath for its immediate release… I will, however, jump up and down for joy with y'all when the day comes. Big Smile

Thank you Alabama for your great explanation. I agree it is very complex issue but I hope Logos will find some solution. Smile

Bohuslav

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 12:07 PM

I'll add my amen to this as well. Although I understand the complexities it will be very helpful.

Let me ask a related question. If storage is the issue would any of us be willing to pay for the storage of personal books? Although I don't like subscriptions the convenience of having Logos keep the backups would be tempting.

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Posts 1307
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 12:07 PM

Maybe in the interim something easy could be done as a workaround to at least make things easier ont he desktop Logos?

Since it is a very complex implementation, yet that we can do it manually without a recompile by:

1. Letting the metadata sync between computers

2. Copy the compiled LBSPBB file(s) from our ResourceManager/Reources file to someplace on the destination computer

3. SCAN the folder containing the LBSPBB file,

maybe Logos could give us a simple workaround that lets us define a folder to copy to (say make this a Program Settings), which would be a SkyDrive, Dropbox, GoogleDrive, network folder etc. shared folder, and then:

1. Whenever a Compile of a PBB happens, if the new folder setting has a value, copy the resulting LBSPBB to it

2. Implement a  simple Command Box command that would go to that folder, and effectively do a SCAN behind the scenes?Call it "SCANPBB"?

you could even kick off this SCANPBB of the folder when metadata came across indicating that a PBB was compiled, as all computers know it - it says "Last compiled: Today" on all computers when the metadata arrives?

This would be a great workaround eliminating a lot a extra PBB compiles, and wondering if I have current xopies on both/all computers at least on the desktop!

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 12:39 PM

Don Awalt:
we can do it manually without a recompile

Actually, a number of forum users (including me) are doing this now, since the metadata does sync among desktops. My situation is between two Win 8 machines, so I don't know for sure how well it would work between Win and Mac desktops. See Keep Smiling 4 Jesus 's comment in this thread (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42036/313026.aspx#313026)  for the procedure.

What I think the OP and most commenters are referring to is syncing to the mobile devices (and perhaps Biblia/Faithlife.

It would be nice of we could do some similar manual process for mobile devices, in the interim.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 1:44 PM

Don Awalt:

 Copy the compiled LBSPBB file(s) from our ResourceManager/Reources file to someplace on the destination computer

 SCAN the folder containing the LBSPBB file,

First question: Can that be done on mobile devices?  [phone, pad, pod, etc] [can we even move files of UNKNOWN type [unknown to Apple, B&N, etc] to them?]

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 1:47 PM

David Ames:
Can that be done on mobile devices?

Apple iOS apps are "sandboxed." Apple is very cautious about allowing apps to share data. Android is more open, and files can be "side loaded." 

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Posts 2182
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 9:44 PM

alabama24:

Tes:
I don't know why it has taken so long.

I am in full agreement in your desire to see personal books sync… I'll take a shot at answering "why so long." 

When you purchase a resource from Logos, they have it on their servers. The neat trick is that Logos can have ONE copy of the resource (with redundancies for backups of course) and THOUSANDS can have access to the one file (with the appropriate licenses). Personal books flips this around. A single book may require THOUSANDS of files stored on the Logos servers (one for each user… the files all being user created / owned and perhaps slightly different). As you can imagine, this isn't a cheap undertaking for Logos. This isn't simply a matter of making the software work… there are financial and legal considerations… And I haven't even mentioned the possibility of legal troubles for Logos if customers upload resources improperly (copyright issues  - without publisher permission). There are other potential solutions: Perhaps Logos could allow users to use their own personal DROPBOX account (or similar service).

You comments make a lot of sense.  I think Logos needs to reconsider the idea of syncing Personal Books on their servers, and come up with some way for each user to directly add / sync Personal Books to the iPad / iPhone / Android devices.  And this needs to be done soon.  It remains a promise not kept, and a real disappointment to many.  It reflects poorly on the company in the eyes of many.

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 11:33 PM

alabama24:

David Ames:
Can that be done on mobile devices?

Apple iOS apps are "sandboxed." Apple is very cautious about allowing apps to share data. Android is more open, and files can be "side loaded." 

I am not sure but it looks to me iPad is able to see any files in dropbox/skydrive/googledisk etc. cloud location, although not allowing to do whatever you like with it. If Logos for iOS would be able to get PB resources from the cloud location and download it the way GoodReader (to name just one) does, the problem would be solved. You would download to your iOS Logos just the PB books you want, the same way you do from the Logos servers with the regular resources. Just an idea.

Bohuslav

Posts 2374
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 11:41 PM

As much as I hope for Synchronisation, I have several resources where I have publisher consent to use locally, but not share or to store on a 3rd party server (cloud/logos)

A default share everything where the PB resides on Logos server, would breach the usage agreement I have with them, I also want synchronisation but want control over what gets uploaded,

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 11:41 PM

Just to prove you can see the PB resource in the Dropbox on the iPad, just we do not have a tool (should be Logos) to use it.

Bohuslav

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 11:50 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Just to prove you can see the PB resource in the Dropbox on the iPad, just we do not have a tool (should be Logos) to use it.

I'm not an iOS expert but just trying to understand how this could work.

I understand that you can see the PB document in Dropbox (or some other cloud client) which - with some sort of PB reader - would enable you to open it and read it but - for it to be fully within the Logos environment - you would also need some "Save as" option (just as you do for Pages, for example) which would move it into the Logos environment. This, I expect, would be a major undertaking and probably break a few architectural and design principles (just speculating)

But without this, you just have a standalone document which you can read but is not searchable or integrated at all. And if this is the case I don't see how it adds much value over using the .docx file which was used to generate the PB in the first place.

Thoughts?

Graham 

 

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 23 2013 11:52 PM

DominicM:

As much as I hope for Synchronisation, I have several resources where I have publisher consent to use locally, but not share or to store on a 3rd party server (cloud/logos)

A default share everything where the PB resides on Logos server, would breach the usage agreement I have with them, I also want synchronisation but want control over what gets uploaded,

The best and most elegant way to do it in this case would be to have a feature in the Library (as we have already with the regular resources) to be able to mark those PB books we want (and are allowed by the publisher) to see on our iPad/iPhone/Android... and yes, WP8 in the future (please!) and in this case Logos 5 (and iOS Logos) would use predefined (in the Setup page?) cloud location to sync the marked PB resource. I know it is complicated but... looks doable. Or am I mistaken?

Bohuslav

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 12:00 AM

Graham Criddle:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Just to prove you can see the PB resource in the Dropbox on the iPad, just we do not have a tool (should be Logos) to use it.

I'm not an iOS expert but just trying to understand how this could work.

I understand that you can see the PB document in Dropbox (or some other cloud client) which - with some sort of PB reader - would enable you to open it and read it but - for it to be fully within the Logos environment - you would also need some "Save as" option (just as you do for Pages, for example) which would move it into the Logos environment. This, I expect, would be a major undertaking and probably break a few architectural and design principles (just speculating)

But without this, you just have a standalone document which you can read but is not searchable or integrated at all. And if this is the case I don't see how it adds much value over using the .docx file which was used to generate the PB in the first place.

Thoughts?

Graham 

 

No Graham, sorry for the confusion. I am not even thinking about any other way of reading the PB resources, except Logos. Logos is the only tool we should think about in this case. But the way to get the resource from cloud to Logos looks similar to me like in the case of other tool (GoodReader etc.) do with, let's say, docx or pdf.

You would mark the PB resource in Library (in Logos 5) for download to your mobile device and Logos 5 and mobile Logos would work with the predefined cloud location to manage it for us. 

I think the ideal location would be Logos servers (may be we can pay some fee for the cloud room on their servers? And than being able to use it even for our other purposes, just as we use Dropbox etc.? Just another idea...)

Bohuslav

Posts 2255
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 5:33 AM

Michael Childs:

alabama24:

Tes:
I don't know why it has taken so long.

I am in full agreement in your desire to see personal books sync… I'll take a shot at answering "why so long." 

When you purchase a resource from Logos, they have it on their servers. The neat trick is that Logos can have ONE copy of the resource (with redundancies for backups of course) and THOUSANDS can have access to the one file (with the appropriate licenses). Personal books flips this around. A single book may require THOUSANDS of files stored on the Logos servers (one for each user… the files all being user created / owned and perhaps slightly different). As you can imagine, this isn't a cheap undertaking for Logos. This isn't simply a matter of making the software work… there are financial and legal considerations… And I haven't even mentioned the possibility of legal troubles for Logos if customers upload resources improperly (copyright issues  - without publisher permission). There are other potential solutions: Perhaps Logos could allow users to use their own personal DROPBOX account (or similar service).

You comments make a lot of sense.  I think Logos needs to reconsider the idea of syncing Personal Books on their servers, and come up with some way for each user to directly add / sync Personal Books to the iPad / iPhone / Android devices.  And this needs to be done soon.  It remains a promise not kept, and a real disappointment to many.  It reflects poorly on the company in the eyes of many.

Thank you Michael,you have exactly stated the purpose of the thread. I am going to bump it , until Logos responds

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 1539
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 5:38 AM

Maybe we need to go back to the other part of what alabama24 said:

alabama24:

Tes:
I don't know why it has taken so long.

Personal books flips this around. A single book may require THOUSANDS of files stored on the Logos servers (one for each user… the files all being user created / owned and perhaps slightly different). As you can imagine, this isn't a cheap undertaking for Logos. This isn't simply a matter of making the software work… there are financial and legal considerations… And I haven't even mentioned the possibility of legal troubles for Logos if customers upload resources improperly (copyright issues  - without publisher permission). 

Who pays for the space to store the files?  Us or Logos? 

What is fair use for me on my CPU might get Logos prison terms and large fines just for storing the file even it is encrypted in a way that Logos can not read it. [[what will the jury rule???]]  

Also as alabama24 confirmed the mobile devices do not allow us to just transfer files to them at will.  And that APPS are not the same a programs in that they are limited as to what they can do.  [[They are little computers but the manufactures have locked them up so that we can only do what they allow - we had compilers for our Apple ][, Radio Shack TRS80 and all the other computers in the early 1980s but these far more powerful mobile units are locked up! [or we are locked out]  ]]

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