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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Feb 24 2013 9:08 AM

In Search, type in "when thou shalt make his soul" - do a lemma search on the word "when" and I have amongst others, Vines listed for the word. When I click on the Vines, I get the word "mother" -------- my question is, why is Vines listed there to begin with?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 9:31 AM

Bootjack:
my question is, why is Vines listed there to begin with?

The simplest answer is that 1) Vines is prioritized in your library OR 2) You don't have enough other prioritized resources with that headword (so it randomly picks one). Are either of those things possible?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 9:37 AM

I don't see this - when I follow your steps (doing the original search as a Bible search against "All Bibles") then I get the search results below:

  • Against which Bible are you generating the lemma search?
  • What is the search string which is generated?
  • Do you get other - unexpected - results other than Vines?

 

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 1:14 PM

Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches? It seems in a word I'm looking for in the Search, those lexicons / Dictionaries with the words in them will come up but not as a rule. But then am I in error on this?

Vines Dictionary is # 38 from the top of the prioritized list. The collected writings of Vine are # 8 from the top. But I'm not getting the latter in my Search - I'm getting the former.

Graham - I noticed your arrow is on Basic - mine is on Bible.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 1:39 PM

Bootjack:

Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches? It seems in a word  search, those lexicons / Dictionaries with the words in them will come up - BUT - then am I in error on this?

Vines Dictionary is # 38 from the top of the prioritized list. The collected writings of Vine are # 8 from the top. But I'm not getting the latter in my Search - I'm getting the former.

It is hard for me to know for sure, but the resources that appear should always be the top five highest prioritized resources with that headword. Without owning those resources, and without being able to sit down at your computer with you, my guess is that "the collected writings of Vine" doesn't have the headword and "Vine's Dictionary" does. 

When you write that Vines Dictionary is #38, I assume you mean it is #38 in the entire list… which is largely irrelevant. You could have 3,000 phone books prioritized above vines, and vines would still show up… because the phone books aren't tagged for the headword. Does that make sense? I assume that my explanation explains what you are seeing, but it could be something else… to know for sure we would need much more info, including screenshots.

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 1:47 PM

Thanks for the reply. My question would be then - why the inconsistency. When I click on any word, the five lexicons / dictionaries that come up have the word I'm looking for. I'm saying this from memory. I found it strange that Vines came up there today and didn't give me the particular word I was after. But again - this is from what I remember and again, I suppose I might be in error on this.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 1:57 PM

Bootjack:
I found it strange that Vines came up there today and didn't give me the particular word I was after. But again - this is from what I remember and again, I suppose I might be in error on this.

You would need to attempt this again and post screen shots to learn any more.

There is a possibility that your copy of vines is out of date, or that one of your indexes has become corrupt. The simplest thing you could try is the command "update resources." Rebuilding indexes may be necessary, but always as a last resort. 

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 2:07 PM

Bootjack:

In Search, type in "when thou shalt make his soul" - do a lemma search on the word "when" and I have amongst others, Vines listed for the word. When I click on the Vines, I get the word "mother" -------- my question is, why is Vines listed there to begin with?

 

Maybe it is because:

When

Usage Notes: * For WHEN, WHENCE, WHENSOEVER, WHERE, etc., see Note †, p. 9

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

[""note"": indicates that the word referred to is not dealt with in this volume]

oops missed that.....

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 2:12 PM

The usage notes part makes sense - I'm wondering why Vines is brought up in the list at all in the case under consideration.

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 2:15 PM

Bootjack:

The usage notes part makes sense - I'm wondering why Vines is brought up in the list at all in the case under consideration.

dunno: good question for the techies @ Logos....

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 2:27 PM

Bootjack:
Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches?

As you might gather, Vine's is getting a little long in the tooth as a serious lexicon. Mounce has definitions for both "when" (H518) and "mother" (H517) whereas Vine's only has H517 which is close enough in form to give a match.  Even TLOT disgraced itself with this word.

Dave
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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 3:10 PM

Dave Hooton:

Bootjack:
Alabama --- Vine's is prioritized but why does it not pop up in other words searches?

As you might gather, Vine's is getting a little long in the tooth as a serious lexicon. Mounce has definitions for both "when" (H518) and "mother" (H517) whereas Vine's only has H517 which is close enough in form to give a match.  Even TLOT disgraced itself with this word.

Interestingly: LHI puts it in the femanine ... C - VaI3FS

if - [she] places|makes

אִם־תָּשִׂ֤ים
ʾim-tāśîm
אִם · שׂים
ʾim · śym
if · (she) places|makes
C · VaI3FS

 

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 3:29 PM

Summary so far: [open for review]
Vines has a note that it does not cover the word and did that note get hit?

Then, once the resource got hit, the place where that word should have been gets hit and we, missing the warning note, and seeing text we assume that the text we see is the hit and don't notice that the hit was for the empty space just before the text on Mother.

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 3:39 PM

David Ames:

Summary so far: [open for review]
Vines has a note that it does not cover the word and did that note get hit?

Then, once the resource got hit, the place where that word should have been gets hit and we, missing the warning note, and seeing text we assume that the text we see is the hit and don't notice that the hit was for the empty space just before the text on Mother.

upon further review and research I was thinking along the same. And this does stand to reason, we did not see a screeshot of his results but I did notice a spacing on mine....

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 4:26 PM

Here's a couple screen shots ---

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 4:27 PM

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 4:27 PM

Again, my point being - Vines should not come up in that list when it's not giving the word I'm asking for.

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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 4:45 PM

Bootjack:

Again, my point being - Vines should not come up in that list when it's not giving the word I'm asking for.

This reply box is all messed up. 

Yes you are correct, maybe the techies @ Logos should have a gander at this, BUT you are pulling up 517 from Vines, which is strange indeed since the ## shows 'H518' in your display[second screenshot-KJV], other resources have this as "if, when, could be, etc., etc."

As an IE> right click again and do the BWS on the lemma, looking at the 'ROOT' and you will read what I mean....

hope this helps....

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 4:46 PM

Well, Bootjack, you arrived at an interesting question.  

We all bounce around in our reading. In my case, the book on Anat was finally released from imprisonment in its collection; I bought it hoping it was Libronix. It wasn't so I got a refund. But in the meantime Anat (mother / brother) came up for air under your search (along with Demons and Deities for 'Mother' also). I suspect the TLOT connection is the answer that Dave aludes to, but we'd need some serious expertise.  There's a whole raft of books mentioning 'Mother'.


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Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 24 2013 4:51 PM

Just did a quick gleaning again......Vines is the only one that I have giving the error of 'mother' - so it seems to be isolated to just that resource.....bootjack pass this along to the techies.....

[sadly I do not get this error in my other bible programs...just Logos......hhhmm(?)]

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