Translation pet peeve

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:28 PM

Josh:

I saw a woman at church the other day with a NWT Bible. She didn't even know it was a 'bad' Bible until I told her the translation errors it contained. She looked quite disgusted that she had been reading it for years.  John was her favorite book to read too!

John 1:1 (New World Translation)

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Wow, with so many versions these days I can understand that the average person would not even know the difference.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Justin Cofer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:34 PM

David Paul:

Justin Cofer:

This gift of love for the Koine Greek language which drove me to learn it is a blessing from God.

...or the strong delusion.

why do you think that love of reading God's revelation in its original form is a "strong delusion?"  Wink lol

Posts 222
Justin Cofer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:35 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Josh:

I saw a woman at church the other day with a NWT Bible. She didn't even know it was a 'bad' Bible until I told her the translation errors it contained. She looked quite disgusted that she had been reading it for years.  John was her favorite book to read too!

John 1:1 (New World Translation)

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Wow, with so many versions these days I can understand that the average person would not even know the difference.

Me too.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:49 PM

I think this thread has deteriorated over the last page of two to the point it's time for my buddy to make an appearance. He is cheap to feed and clean up after.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:55 PM

Justin Cofer:

why do you think that love of reading God's revelation in its original form is a "strong delusion?"  Wink lol

It's original form is Hebrew...do you love it also?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 9:01 PM

David ... I sure hope you're on board with Adam speaking hebrew. Else we're going to have to load up with even more languages.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 4889
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 9:05 PM

We know one thing for sure...he did in the Bible.

12 וַיֹּ֖אמֶר הָֽאָדָ֑ם הָֽאִשָּׁה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר נָתַ֣תָּה עִמָּדִ֔י הִ֛וא נָֽתְנָה־לִּ֥י מִן־הָעֵ֖ץ וָאֹכֵֽל׃

See?

Wink

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Justin Cofer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 9:08 PM

David Paul:

Justin Cofer:

why do you think that love of reading God's revelation in its original form is a "strong delusion?"  Wink lol

It's original form is Hebrew...do you love it also?

More than my necessary food.  Big Smile

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 10:27 PM

David Paul:

We know one thing for sure...he did in the Bible.

12 וַיֹּ֖אמֶר הָֽאָדָ֑ם הָֽאִשָּׁה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר נָתַ֣תָּה עִמָּדִ֔י הִ֛וא נָֽתְנָה־לִּ֥י מִן־הָעֵ֖ץ וָאֹכֵֽל׃

See?

Wink

Ἐὰν ταῖς γλώσσαις τῶν ἀνθρώπων λαλῶ καὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω, γέγονα χαλκὸς ἠχῶν ἢ κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον.

See?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 11:39 AM

It's interesting no one brought up red letter editions of the text.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 11:53 AM

George Somsel:

Ἐὰν ταῖς γλώσσαις τῶν ἀνθρώπων λαλῶ καὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω, γέγονα χαλκὸς ἠχῶν ἢ κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον.

See?

Hmm

αὕτη γάρ ἐστιν ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα τὰς ἐντολὰς αὐτοῦ τηρῶμεν, καὶ αἱ ἐντολαὶ αὐτοῦ βαρεῖαι οὐκ εἰσίν.

Idea

Shabhbaatth Shaalohm!!

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 11:59 AM

Josh:

It's interesting no one brought up red letter editions of the text.

If I recall correctly you can either have red letters or not have red letters so, if someone doesn't like red letters, they can be changed to black.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1509
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 12:52 PM

George Somsel:

Josh:

It's interesting no one brought up red letter editions of the text.

If I recall correctly you can either have red letters or not have red letters so, if someone doesn't like red letters, they can be changed to black.

Why certainly! However, this does not change my opinion that the interpretive subjectivity of such red lettering makes it more of an obstacle than anything else.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 1:08 PM

I just spoke against "speaker tags" in another thread, but I do find an advantage in the red lettering of the NT. It is, for me, a kind of broad brush highlighting mechanism that helps me to more quickly narrow in on a verse that I am looking for when I don't know exactly where it is. The visual patterns of red and black, some larger, some smaller, are sort of like radar feedback. For me, there is much value in this, as I have used it as a tool with good success for years.

That said, I haven't overlooked the fact that I called it a "broad brush", and as such it obviously isn't the tool one should use for doing "detail" work. I don't assume the red letters are perfectly applied.

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 1:51 PM

I can't stand that our Bible's have been transformed into reference works. It's not a dictionary! Each book was meant to be read through completely. The whole double column thing is unnatural to the way we typically read books. Luckily a few publishers are now producing Bibles free from some of the distracting clutter included in most Bibles - pericope breaks, chapter divisions, translation notations, cross references, etc. 

Now, I'm not saying there isn't a place for an annotated reference Bible. However, if I'm just going to read - to just read - I want just the text.

 

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 2:41 PM

Josh:

The whole double column thing is unnatural to the way we typically read books.

The ms was written by 2 scribes, "A" and "B," of whom B wrote the NT. The codex is of fine appearance, square (27 × 27 cm), composed of 5-sheet quires (quinions), with 3 columns to a page, and 40–44 lines to a column. The text was corrected by a hand contemporary with the scribes, generally identified with the diorthotes (official corrector of the scriptorium).

The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, s.v. Codex, Codex Vaticanus. Edited by Freedman, David Noel, Gary A. Herion, David F. Graf et al. New York: Doubleday, 1992.

Multiple columns is not a new thing. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10767
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 4:14 PM

Well I agree with Josh.  They just remind me of a greek temple where they did column worship (why else so many columns?). Then you have army columns where each column is trying to hog the road. Plus spreadsheets; they start with columns and then go crazy with 'rows'.  If I remember right, didn't the Israelites go through the reed sea in a SINGLE column. Bingo.  Didn't Moses (or the finger of YHWH) write in a single column? In fact, the text was VERY specific (front and back of tablets; no columns).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 4:23 PM

DMB:

Well I agree with Josh.  They just remind me of a greek temple where they did column worship (why else so many columns?). Then you have army columns where each column is trying to hog the road. Plus spreadsheets; they start with columns and then go crazy with 'rows'.  If I remember right, didn't the Israelites go through the reed sea in a SINGLE column. Bingo.  Didn't Moses (or the finger of YHWH) write in a single column? In fact, the text was VERY specific (front and back of tablets; no columns).

Ding-a-ling !

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 10767
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 4:40 PM

Wink  (I WAS careful not to bring up or even hint about the Asherah columns, since historians agree, it was really Manassah that was the source of the complete destruction of Judah).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 4889
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 4:42 PM

Josh:

I can't stand that our Bible's have been transformed into reference works. It's not a dictionary! Each book was meant to be read through completely.

Except the Bible IS a reference work...it is a collection of prophecies that sometimes resembles nothing quite so much as a shoe box crammed full of little scraps of paper with various prophecies scribbled on them...which is one of the reasons folks often find prophecy incomprehensible. It was written that way on purpose. How can a book be "sealed" and yet be the world's best seller? By using phenomena such as the one I just described...among a plethora of others whose purpose is to cause blindness through confusion and false assumptions in readers.

Prophetic truth is scattered "here a little and there a little". A program like Logos allows a person to pierce the intentional fog precisely because it isn't tied slavishly to the "delivered" context, because the delivered context, which is slavishly perceived to be "historical narrative", is the fog which must be pierced.

Josh:

The whole double column thing is unnatural to the way we typically read books.

Well, there you go. Reading the Bible in the same way you "typically read books" is a process that will doom you to never understand the message YHWH is trying to convey. In case it hasn't occurred to you...the Bible isn't a typical book

Idea

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