Topic Guide has no Definition Section

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Posts 22
Paul Lehr | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 12 2013 7:03 PM

I have the L5 minimal crossgrade and when I do a Topic Guide I do not see a definition section at the beginning like I saw in the video for Topic Guide. The other sections are there, but not Definition section. A definitions section was also not available to add when I tried to add it to the template. I do have some dictionaries in my library. I am guessing that maybe I do not have a dictionary that it wants to see in my library to be able to include the Definition section.

Anyone have any ideas about this or maybe confirm that it is because I do not have at least one of the dictionaries that it needs to activate this section. It does say the following in the help for Topic Guide:

Default sections available in the Topic Guide (depend on available resources):

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 12 2013 8:16 PM

Welcome Paul,

There is a warning message on the product page: "The Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade is designed only for users who are coming from a Logos 4 base package. If you have never owned a Logos 4 base package, you will need to also purchase the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade."

You will have to make that other purchase because you are missing a database (Logos Controlled Vocabulary or LCV) for the Topic Guide. You get a lot of other resources that help fill out your use of the Passage Guide in particular, but you will need some "bible dictionaries" as the source for Topic Guide - see this picture and this wiki article.

Dave
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Posts 22
Paul Lehr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 5:06 AM

Dave.

I purchased the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade in June of 2010 but never a Base Package. Most of my resources come from various Nelson Libronix packages that synced over into 4 and now 5 after getting buying the Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade. Maybe it is because I have never owned a Base package. But even without a Base package I have a huge amount of functionality available and not having the definition show up is just a minor inconvenience. I do have Smith's Bible Dictionary and Nelson's New Illustrated Dictionary and some other dictionaries so there are dictionaries for it to work with. I have gotten results in all of the the other Topic Guide categories for various searches so maybe that LCV that you mentioned only affects the Dictionary search part of the Topic Guide. Thanks for your reply.

Paul

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Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 4:29 PM

What topic are you using in the report

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 4:42 PM

Paul Lehr:
I purchased the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade in June of 2010

In the About Logos .. section of the Help menu ( big ? on top right) do you see the following entry for Topic Guide (scroll to the bottom)? If you do is the date the same as mine?

Dave
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Posts 22
Paul Lehr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2013 6:55 PM

I started looking at the resources that I would get by adding the Starter Base package and I saw quite a few that I would like to have as part of my library, the price was reasonable for all of the additional resources that I actually wanted, so I bought it. The Definition section then showed up on all of the Topic Guide searches now.

Maybe the reason was that I did not have any base package  before and now I have a base package so it now works. So I am all set with this issue.

The info in the About is the same as yours. It was before I bought the Starter Base package and after. I did not think to look there so I learned something from your post. All that I noticed in the Help About before was the version number of Logos itself, not all of the sub-modules.

Thanks.

Paul

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 14 2013 1:17 AM

Paul Lehr:
The info in the About is the same as yours. It was before I bought the Starter Base package and after.

I'm glad you found an affordable solution, but it still raises the question as to why Topic Guide did not work before you got Starter...

Dave
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Posts 49
LogosEmployee
Chris Robbers | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 14 2013 4:43 PM

Hi Paul,

I investigated this issue and found there are certain cases where the Definition section may not show up. I have forwarded the issue to the people that can make a proper decision on the best way to address this issue, for a future release.

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LogosEmployee
Chris Robbers | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 14 2013 4:49 PM

Paul Lehr:
I am guessing that maybe I do not have a dictionary that it wants to see in my library to be able to include the Definition section.

You are correct with this guess. Some of the dictionaries are currently flagged as "encyclopedias" (including New Bible Dictionary and Smith's Bible Dictionary), and the Definition section currently requires at least one resource that we flag as a "dictionary".

Posts 22
Paul Lehr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 14 2013 7:46 PM

Dave,

I see that Chris from Logos (thank you Chris) has looked into this issue with no definition section and it will be addressed. I have only been a reader of the forums up till now. It's a great place for help and it is also good to see once again that Logos people read them and respond to the issues presented here.

Thanks again for your info Dave. I am really happy with my decision to go for the Starter edition. I ended up with some really good additional resources for not too much of a hit to the wallet and this issue went away with the upgrade.

Paul

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 14 2013 8:53 PM

Paul Lehr:
Thanks again for your info Dave.

You're welcome,  and your experience has uncovered an issue that needs to be addressed.

Dave
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LogosEmployee

This bug will be fixed in 5.1 Beta 5.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 15 2013 4:44 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):

This bug will be fixed in 5.1 Beta 5.

But what will that address e.g. availability of Topic Guide or the Definition section, or suitable LCV resource?

Dave
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LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:

But what will that address e.g. availability of Topic Guide or the Definition section, or suitable LCV resource?

Before today, the Definition section would hide itself if your Library contained no resources of type:Dictionary. That particular restriction will be lifted in 5.1 Beta 5 (because the Definition section can also show type:Encyclopedia and type:Lexicon resources).
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 15 2013 11:38 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
the Definition section would hide itself if your Library contained no resources of type:Dictionary.

Even if it did, Merriam Webster is not a good resource for bible topicsBig Smile  

For the benefit of others: the "bible dictionaries" used for topics were changed from type:dictionary to type:encyclopedia some time ago.

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
That particular restriction will be lifted in 5.1 Beta 5 (because the Definition section can also show type:Encyclopedia and type:Lexicon resources).

It can also show type:Concordance  e.g. Dictionary of Bible themes, Collins Thesaurus of the Bible.

Dave
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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2013 12:16 PM

Dave Hooton:

It can also show type:Concordance  e.g. Dictionary of Bible themes, Collins Thesaurus of the Bible.

An unrelated change in 5.1 Beta 5 will be excluding resources of this type from the Definition section; it was felt that they do not do a good job of providing "definitions".
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2013 2:23 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
An unrelated change in 5.1 Beta 5 will be excluding resources of this type from the Definition section; it was felt that they do not do a good job of providing "definitions".

Please DON"T. I mentioned those concordances because they are very useful and I rate them highly for my use. It's like saying that Bible Notes don't provide "good" articles as commentaries in Passgae Guide. The choice should remain with the user.

Dave
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Posts 8066
LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:

Please DON"T.

I'll pass this feedback to the designer.

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LogosEmployee

After investigating this, we've found that the Definition and Collections sections in the Topic Guide are not functioning as intended (in the latest version of the spec) and we will be reworking both of them to bring them in line with their intended design. (Definition will become more focused than it is now, and Collections will become broader, so you can search a collection of Bible Concordances (or any collection you like) for resources that contain information on the current topic.)

5.1 Beta 5 will still bring the changes mentioned above, but these should be undone later in the beta.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2013 7:32 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
After investigating this, we've found that the Definition and Collections sections in the Topic Guide are not functioning as intended

There was some discussion/issue about this during the 5.0 beta and I presume it was left As Is because Definition is roughly consistent with Topic in Basic Search, where I appreciated the inclusion of the two concordances mentioned above. As these would have to be LCV resources then there should not be a distinction between Concordance & Encyclopedia in Topic Guide. The current implementation does not allow type:Concordance in the Collection section whilst they are allowed in the Definition section.

Dave
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Windows & Android

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