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Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Apr 5 2013 4:28 AM

When I open the 'Dictionary of the Later New Testament & its Developments' and enter a page number, it automatically changes to a different book. For instance 'page 243' opens to 'Dictionary of Jesus & the Gospels' and entering 'page 50' opens 'Dictionary of New Testament Backgrounds'. Sightly frustrating because my course notes direct me to page numbers.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 4:40 AM

I don't have the option to enter page numbers. Can you give a screen shot? I do not have he option to enter page numbers.

This is the latest version of the product.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 4:49 AM

Hi Lynden,

All Logos books have page numbers, you just type them in the box:

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 5:11 AM

Sean McIntyre:
All Logos books have page numbers, you just type them in the box:

Actually Sean, not true - they have to be indexed that way. See my picture at the bottom, the resource you reference does NOT have a Page index, while  a resource I picked at random, does.  Not sure why it goes to the resource it goes to, but typing a Page number into the box will not go to that page in your resource because there is no page index.

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Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 5:18 AM

Thanks Don

However, it is part of a set and all the other books (also dictionaries) are indexed and in fact the books the page numbers go to are in that set. Whilst I am sure you are correct in saying that not all resources are indexed this way, I suspect that in this case it is an error. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 5:38 AM

Sean McIntyre:
I suspect that in this case it is an error.

I don't know if it is an error or not. You should create a new thread in the general forum and ask specifically about the page numbers in this resource. Neither the Dictionary of New Testament Backgrounds nor the Dictionary of the Later New Testament & its Developments are indexed by page numbers. This isn't a "bug" in the software, and the behavior you are describing is to be expected… Since the resource isn't indexed by page numbers, it takes you to another resource in the series which is. 

Out of curiosity: can you confirm once again that entering 'page 50' opens 'Dictionary of New Testament Backgrounds'? That is the only mystery to me, and I could not replicate this behavior. In all cases, I was taken to the "Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels" (which IS indexed by page number).

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:14 AM

alabama24:
This isn't a "bug" in the software, and the behavior you are describing is to be expected… Since the resource isn't indexed by page numbers, it takes you to another resource in the series which is.

Umm, I don't think it should be expected behavior. I can't imagine it would ever be useful or acceptable to ask for page n in resource X and be handed page n in resource Y. That is a bug. It should alert the user that page numbers are not indexed.

Posts 281
Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:25 AM

Randy W. Sims (Shayne):

alabama24:
This isn't a "bug" in the software, and the behavior you are describing is to be expected… Since the resource isn't indexed by page numbers, it takes you to another resource in the series which is.

Umm, I don't think it should be expected behavior. I can't imagine it would ever be useful or acceptable to ask for page n in resource X and be handed page n in resource Y. That is a bug. It should alert the user that page numbers are not indexed.

Agreed. The other dictionaries in the series are indexed by page. Also, Logos is a research tool and not a book-reader and this is an electronic version of a print book. How can I accurately cite my sources for my essays if I do not have page numbers?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:27 AM

Randy W. Sims (Shayne):
Umm, I don't think it should be expected behavior. I can't imagine it would ever be useful or acceptable to ask for page n in resource X and be handed page n in resource Y. That is a bug. It should alert the user that page numbers are not indexed.

It isn't a bug Randy… it is a feature. The reason for the unexpected behavior is because the resource doesn't have page numbers!

Let me explain further… When you are using the Word Biblical Commentary, it is useful to be able to navigate from John 3:16 to 1 John 5:1… but to do this, Logos has to switch to another book in the same series. Likewise, in theological dictionaries, if you are in one volume and you want to navigate to an article which may be in another volume of the series, you can simply type the headword into the locator bar and it will take you to the other resource. This isn't a bug, it is the designed behavior! The reason that the OP is having troubles is because the resource he is in doesn't have page numbers. That isn't a bug. I agree it is undesirable, but it isn't a bug.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:28 AM

Sean McIntyre:
The other dictionaries in the series are indexed by page.

Of the three you originally referenced, only one was indexed by page number.

Sean McIntyre:
How can I accurately cite my sources for my essays if I do not have page numbers?

You can use logosres: logosres:dlntd;hw=Pride_and_Humility  

EDIT: I agree that page numbers would be useful, and should have been included. 

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Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:38 AM

alabama24:

Sean McIntyre:
The other dictionaries in the series are indexed by page.

Of the three you originally referenced, only one was indexed by page number.

Sean McIntyre:
How can I accurately cite my sources for my essays if I do not have page numbers?

You can use logosres. 

EDIT: I agree that page numbers would be useful, and should have been included. 

Sorry, I have only half an eye on this because I am writing an essay. Regardless of the fact that some have page numbers and some don't, I find it shoddy. How did they decide to give page numbers to one and not another. Page numbers are important because I am required to use them in citations and because I am often directed to page numbers in course work. I can take this from a Kindle but not Logos and not at the prices we pay for the resources. I believe I bought these as a set and they arbitrarily decided that one dictionary would have page numbers and another not.  

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:48 AM

Sean McIntyre:
Regardless of the fact that some have page numbers and some don't, I find it shoddy. How did they decide to give page numbers to one and not another.

I have no idea. Sorry I can't be of more help! Tongue Tied

EDIT: I just checked out the series (IVP Dictionary of the New Testament). Two volumes have page numbers (DJG, DPL), the other two do not (DLNTD, DNTB). 

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Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:53 AM

alabama24:

Sean McIntyre:
Regardless of the fact that some have page numbers and some don't, I find it shoddy. How did they decide to give page numbers to one and not another.

I have no idea. Sorry I can't be of more help! Tongue Tied

Thanks. I am sure I will soldier on. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 7:00 AM

Sean McIntyre:
Thanks. I am sure I will soldier on.

I have one possible (non logos) solution. Try copying a portion of the text and looking it up in http://books.google.com . I just tried it with a passage from one of the dictionaries and it gave me a page number.I know its not ideal, but it might help you get through the paper. 

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 7:01 AM

alabama24:
Let me explain further… When you are using the Word Biblical Commentary, it is useful to be able to navigate from John 3:16 to 1 John 5:1… but to do this, Logos has to switch to another book in the same series. Likewise, in theological dictionaries, if you are in one volume and you want to navigate to an article which may be in another volume of the series, you can simply type the headword into the locator bar and it will take you to the other resource. This isn't a bug, it is the designed behavior!

I'm 100% in agreement with you there. It's that typing in "page 50" in one resource takes you to page 50 in another resource that I respectfully disagree. That behavior isn't useful or sensible in any scenario I can think of, and could be confusing if you don't notice the resource has been changed out from under you. Logos can and should flag that for the user.

For separate issue of whether or not that resource should have page numbers, I also agree with both of you that as a reference it is highly desirable that it include the page numbers.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 7:05 AM

Randy W. Sims (Shayne):
It's that typing in "page 50" in one resource takes you to page 50 in another resource that I respectfully disagree.

OK. I'll buy that. Since Sean is working on a paper, I'll let you write up a bug report. Stick out tongue

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Randy W. Sims (Shayne):

It's that typing in "page 50" in one resource takes you to page 50 in another resource that I respectfully disagree. That behavior isn't useful or sensible in any scenario I can think of, and could be confusing if you don't notice the resource has been changed out from under you.

I agree with you; it's not useful to change resources in a series when a "generic" data type (such as a page number) is entered. (Unless there happens to be some set of resources that don't restart page numbering across the different volumes. But I can't think of any that do; it seems that they'd almost always have different Volume numbers.) I'll file a bug for this.

I also think these resources should never have been in the same series in the first place. Series has a highly specific meaning within Logos (basically for this linking purpose) and isn't intended to mean "these books were released at the same time by the same publisher" or something similar. I'll pass back some feedback on this, too.

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 6:46 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
I'll file a bug for this

Thank you, Bradley.

This issue has caught me several times with this resource, and each time it "bugs" me. :-) It would be great to get it fixed.

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Allen Browne:

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
I'll file a bug for this

Thank you, Bradley.

This issue has caught me several times with this resource, and each time it "bugs" me. :-) It would be great to get it fixed.

This will be fixed in 5.1 Beta 5.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 5 2013 7:51 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
This will be fixed in 5.1 Beta 5

Wow! Look at the service. Smile

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