Help with a Topic search please.

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Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:23 AM

Hi, I've just done a basic topic search for 'Simeon' having clicked the magnifying glass icon to start a search. I've also configured it to search my entire library. Yes, I get loads of search results, but in the top Topic Section I only have the one highlighted dictionary (The New Bible Dictionary), BUT I have many dictionaries with 'Simeon sections' - shouldn't these be listed there? And if so - why aren't they?

 

 

Many thanks. 

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:27 AM

Mine is a bit more full, but I'm not convinced that all of it is there either.  of course I haven't checked against it.  It could be an issue of proper topic tagging (or even of indexing?).

 

I can't offer any sound reasons Stephen, but those are my best guesses.

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:32 AM

What happens if you click on the "Search for ("Simeon", "Symeon") instead?" Link? Here are the options I have...

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:32 AM

Stephen,

Off hand I'd guess that you need to prioritize your other bible dictionaries...

the other thing that I'd recommend is that you make a collection for this type of of search

Here is an easy way to make a collection of bible dictionaries: (I just used the titles)

 

 

 

 

 

Then when you search; you get much more relevant hits than searching your whole library.

Notice that Simeon is the topic of a lot of these hits..

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 12:26 PM

Thanks everybody for your suggestions. I've tried everything suggested and nothing has worked, apart from Robert's suggestion of  creating a collection which is a good 'work aroiund' but the fact remains that the dictionaries are still not showing in the 'Look it up' section of the Topic section. 

 

Do you think a complete re-indexing of Logos 4 will solve the issue and how do I go about forcing a completely fresh index rather than a merged one? 

Stephen

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 12:34 PM

Stephen Thorp:
Do you think a complete re-indexing of Logos 4 will solve the issue and how do I go about forcing a completely fresh index rather than a merged one? 
I can only guess that it might and it might not.

The only way to reindex in L4sr7 is to delete (or rename) the index file.  But in the beta you can issue a "rebuild index" command in the command box.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 12:41 PM

Thanks Thomas.

I'm not using the beta as I've always been a bit nervous about trying such things - perhaps I should give it a go? Or wait for the next upgrade which hopefully won't be too long. Appreciate the help.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 12:48 PM

Stephen,

For some reason, dictionaries have to be especially tagged before they will appear in the topic search. Logos employee Sean Boisen has attempted to explain why. More are tagged in that way now then when Logos was first released, so you'll need to update resources if you don't do that automatically.

Anyway, unless you have resources which are showing in other people's "Simeon" searches, but not in yours, it's not an indexing problem. FWIW, I see the following:

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 1:08 PM

BRILLIANT! Thanks Mark that was really helpful and has put my mind to rest - for a moment I thought my Logos was broken and metaphorically and literally I can't afford that!! Guess I just don't have as many of the tagged dictionaries as the rest of you! 

Posts 139
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:23 PM

Mark hit the nail on the head. We're going through Bible dictionaries and similar kinds of resources, and organizing them into the new Logos 4 topics, but that's on-going work that only covers seven dictionaries at present: New Bible Dictionary, Eerdman's Bible Dictionary, Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible, Tyndale Bible Dictionary, Bake, ISBE, and Anchor-Yale Bible Dictionary. Only articles from those resources will show up in the Topics section for now. 

There have been quite a few comments on the forums about how topics work in Logos 4. I'm definitely interested in further feedback, but i'd suggest first reviewing what's already there to avoid rehashing well-trod ground (i've already had an earful Smile ). The "topics" tag will catch many of those previous posts: http://community.logos.com/forums/tags/topics/default.aspx.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:46 PM

Stephen Thorp:
Guess I just don't have as many of the tagged dictionaries as the rest of you! 

That said, you can pick up that entry in many other Bible Dictionaries if you use the Right and Left Arrow keys starting from any listed dictionary.

I had 4 listed but found entries in 10 others!

Dave
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Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 12 2009 10:50 PM

Thanks everyone for your help, and thanks Sean for responding on behalf of Logos - I didn't mean to give you 'another earfull'. Just for the record I did search the forums for an answer but didn't spot the thread that Mark kindly directed me to.. There's an awful lot of stuff contained within the forums but finding it isn't always easy. Cheers!

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 2:22 AM

Did you notice?

Now, when you do this search:

topic: simeon

You get only topics from your bible dictionaries and not all of the "surface text" hits?

THIS:

 

 

VS THIS:

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 2:25 AM

Additional comment to my last post...

Actually having both of these options

topic: word

and

word

is a good thing....that way you can zero in on actual topics when you want, and search more "peripheral" mentions of the word if you want to....

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 2:44 AM

Thanks Robert. I didn't know this, so that's very helpful!

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 2:47 AM

Stephen Thorp:
Thanks Robert. I didn't know this, so that's very helpful!

Thank YOU for starting this thread...I had no idea this was in place until now either!!

Thanks Logos for listening (but not to me...I didn't see that it would be that vaulable until now...) Embarrassed

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:44 AM

Robert Pavich:

Stephen Thorp:
Thanks Robert. I didn't know this, so that's very helpful!

Thank YOU for starting this thread...I had no idea this was in place until now either!!

Thanks Logos for listening (but not to me...I didn't see that it would be that vaulable until now...) Embarrassed

Sorry to rain on the party, but they're not listening (or at least they might be listening, but haven't done anything). It's always worked that way. There is no search term "topic", except in one or two very old LLS resources. But whilst the entire library tries to use the search field (and therefore returns zero results) the 'topic' search ignores the search field, which makes it look as though it's doing a topic search.

So bible:Simeon returns a 'topic' search too, as does not-a-search-term:Simeon

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:57 AM

Mark Barnes:

 

 Sorry to rain on the party, but they're not listening (or at least they might be listening, but haven't done anything). So bible:Simeon returns a 'topic' search too, as does not-a-search-term:Simeon

Mark,

There seems to be a miscommunication....

Quoting Sean above:

We're going through Bible dictionaries and similar kinds of resources, and organizing them into the new Logos 4 topics, but that's on-going work that only covers seven dictionaries at present: New Bible Dictionary, Eerdman's Bible Dictionary, Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible, Tyndale Bible Dictionary, Bake, ISBE, and Anchor-Yale Bible Dictionary. Only articles from those resources will show up in the Topics section for now. 

 

Also, when you use "topics:word" you ONLY get topically tagged resources...not your whole library....and the hits within them are not "highlighted" like a regular search...

 

Topical: only returns topically tagged resources even though WHOLE LIBRARY  was selected

 

 

 

Same search without using "topic:" returns WHOLE LIBRARY results....

 

 

This isn't the way it's always worked that I can recall....

 

Sean, can you verify?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:13 AM

Sean said:

Somebody mentioned using topic:someterm in search, but that doesn't seem to behave as i'd expect if it were really searching topics. I'll inquire further.

Then he later said:

BTW, while i'm not sure yet what the search syntax "topic:Gentiles" means, it doesn't do a "topic search" in the L3 sense: that's incorrect information from some earlier posts about topics. If you want to find the (new style) topic, just search for "Gentiles". If there's a topic, you'll see a Topic section in the Passage Guide: otherwise you won't.

My reply that follows that last citation from Sean demonstrates exactly the functionality you're describing above, and is from a month ago.

Sean went on to say:

A better statement on my part would have been "what topic:XXX does isn't very predictable". A few resources have been tagged in such a way that this finds the tags (note this is now a _third_ sense of "topic", different from new-style Logos 4 topics, and different from matching strings!), but most have not. So it's not a reliable way to find topics (in whatever sense one means) in your library.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:28 AM

I'm also not happy with the way the TOPIC section works. It's very misleading to return a TOPIC result when performing a Field search eg. words-of-christ:simeon means I only want Library results for words-of-christ in a bible. You'll get exactly the same TOPIC result for topic:simeon, but as Mark says the topic field is only found in a few resources and its Library results are not true TOPICs. I'm going to file a bug report.

EDIT: If the topic: field search was able to return true TOPICs then we wouldn't be having this debate. The L3 topic search was topic(simeon), which also returned much better results than topic:simeon but L4 is trying to provide more accurate results than topic(simeon). But I'm not convinced that a Basic Search on a single word is the best way to return TOPICs eg. (simeon AND son) does not return TOPICs.

Dave
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