Announcing New Logos Video Tools: Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:46 PM

We're developing a set of HD videos (over 15 hours of content) designed to help you to use Greek and Hebrew tools in Logos without formal training. Or you can use them to help knock some of the rust off your Greek or Hebrew! 

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876

 

Scholar's is recommend. and BDAG as well. However, if you don't have BDAG you can still get plenty of value and skill with Logos 4 without it. 

Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

Posts 291
Kaye Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:47 PM

It's on my Pre-Pub list.  Are we there yet??  Cool

And thanks for the BDAG comment.  I don't have it yet...

K

"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)

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Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:53 PM

Will free tutorials still be developed for those who aren't necessarily looking for language instruction but want to learn how to best use L4 tools like Morphological and Syntactical searching?

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:53 PM

We are sooo close! Smile

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 4:57 PM

"Will free tutorials still be developed for those who aren't necessarily looking for language instruction but want to learn how to best use L4 tools like Morphological and Syntactical searching?"

for sure!

Posts 704
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:05 PM

Reuben Evans:

for sure!

Great news!

I'm very supportive of this initiative.
I am hopeful that it will help a lot of people use the wealth of information so easily available in L4 in an exegetically responsible way.

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:12 PM

Kaye Anderson:

It's on my Pre-Pub list.  Are we there yet??  Cool

And thanks for the BDAG comment.  I don't have it yet...

K

We are sooo close! Smile

Posts 1965
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:14 PM

Reuben,

Whilst I have ordered this and look forward to using it, I am concerned by statements such as this: "Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.". 

In my third year of Hebrew we were required to read unpointed texts and examined on our ability to repoint unseen texts. Granted that I did many more hours of Hebrew than most seminaries or M.Div programs, but the sell seems just a little bit too much here.... After three years, I expect people to be able to read narrative texts without the use of a lexicon, I'm not sure that 15 hours of videos can achieve this.

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:22 PM

Damian McGrath:

Reuben,

Whilst I have ordered this and look forward to using it, I am concerned by statements such as this: "Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.". 

In my third year of Hebrew we were required to read unpointed texts and examined on our ability to repoint unseen texts. Granted that I did many more hours of Hebrew than most seminaries or M.Div programs, but the sell seems just a little bit too much here.... After three years, I expect people to be able to read narrative texts without the use of a lexicon, I'm not sure that 15 hours of videos can achieve this.

Damian,

You are correct that the focus is not sight reading the text, that requires hundreds of hours of memorization. but we can accomplish a thorough training on how to use the tools for hebrew exegesis and the mindset required to think through the results that appear in the reports. Also folks can gain an understanding of the significance of morph info and when it  appropriately aides your exegesis.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:29 PM

Reuben Evans:
Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

I'll admit to being skeptical - it sounds like you are claiming a shortcut to knowledge that requires years of reading original languages - the surface grammar and "literal" translation is the easy part of language - the part Logos provides excellent tools to support. But actually understanding of the language requires that you are comfortable with the idioms and connotations of the language as used in particular genres and eras. Do the videos approach any of these issues? If so, I am very interested in them.

Logos4catholics Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1965
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:35 PM

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered.... 

 

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:45 PM

MJ. Smith:

Reuben Evans:
Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

I'll admit to being skeptical - it sounds like you are claiming a shortcut to knowledge that requires years of reading original languages - the surface grammar and "literal" translation is the easy part of language - the part Logos provides excellent tools to support. But actually understanding of the language requires that you are comfortable with the idioms and connotations of the language as used in particular genres and eras. Do the videos approach any of these issues? If so, I am very interested in them.

MJ,

Were you able to watch the video on "bara" at the bottom of pre-pub? It may give you an idea if this videos series is for you. In it Dr. Heiser explores the basics of understanding a word based on its use in a specific context. Ideas like idioms and connotations are the meat of interpretation that we want to focus on, as well as the connotations of morphology. As you said, "translation" is the easy part. In Logos it is basically done for you. So that is why we are focusing on the significance of the data that the software can bring you so the student is equipped to evaluate commentators and lexicons with intelligence. 

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:46 PM

 

Damian McGrath:

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered.... 

 

No problem, we appreciate the feedback.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 5:54 PM

Damian McGrath:

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered.... 

I agree with Damian. I also have ordered the resource, but I feel that some are going to be severely disappointed. The advertising is over promising what can be accomplished in 15 short hours. We already have too many "experts" with limited training and experience claiming to know the original languages. Unrealistic advertising may increase sales, but it also runs the danger of unsatisfied customers.

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 6:25 PM

JackCaviness:

Damian McGrath:

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered.... 

I agree with Damian. I also have ordered the resource, but I feel that some are going to be severely disappointed. The advertising is over promising what can be accomplished in 15 short hours. We already have too many "experts" with limited training and experience claiming to know the original languages. Unrealistic advertising may increase sales, but it also runs the danger of unsatisfied customers.

Jack,

Thanks for your comments. I understand your concerns. And I think it is important what Dr. Heiser sys at the end of the video that "this is not meant to replace traditional Greek and Hebrew courses." But we can accomplish the 5 or 6 goals stated in the video. The student won't have a Greek vocab list memorized, or a paradigm memorized. But they will, for example,  understand the significance of the Genitive, how it functions in one context versus another, which lexicons are more helpful and why, and how to make heads or tails of grammatical and syntactical discussions in commentaries. This way students can move from Strong's to BDAG or Weirsbe to WBC with comprehension. And think through all the raw data that Logos 4 produces in reports like the Bible Word Study. 

So the goal, is to help the student become an informed interpreter rather than a translator (which would require a lot more time and memorization).

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 6:56 PM

Reuben Evans:
hanks for your comments. I understand your concerns. And I think it is important what Dr. Heiser sys at the end of the video that "this is not meant to replace traditional Greek and Hebrew courses."

I did not say that the resource had no value. I have ordered it and intend to use it. However, the advertising implies that is it a replacement for traditional training. I received more than 15 hours of content in my first Greek course, and it was not all rote memorization. Beyond the first year, I recall little memorization, but I did have a great deal of application.

  • Over 15 hours of content taught by Dr. Mike Heiser and Johnny Cisneros using Logos 4. That is equivalent content of an entire college class!
  • Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.

Posts 2733
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 7:15 PM

seems like a very good resource to help discern how Logos can be used for Greek study.

Reuben, how much of this is covered in the MP seminars? How much is unique to this video set?

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Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 7:53 PM

Joe Miller:

seems like a very good resource to help discern how Logos can be used for Greek study.

Reuben, how much of this is covered in the MP seminars? How much is unique to this video set?

I can't speak for the L4 seminars, but the two L3 seminars I attended did not cover this type of material. If you are looking for a seminar that would cover this type of material I think the "Greek in a Week" seminars would be the way to go.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 8:17 PM

Reuben Evans:
So that is why we are focusing on the significance of the data that the software can bring you so the student is equipped to evaluate commentators and lexicons with intelligence. 

Got it. The pre-pub title and description hadn't gotten me to focus on it as "how to interpret original language data" - I will be interested to see what people think of the program after using it.

Logos4catholics Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Reuben Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 8:31 PM

Joe Miller:

seems like a very good resource to help discern how Logos can be used for Greek study.

Reuben, how much of this is covered in the MP seminars? How much is unique to this video set?

Joe 

This content is 100% unique to this series of videos. 

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