Announcing New Logos Video Tools: Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos

We are sooo close! [:)]

MJ. Smith said:

Reuben Evans said:

Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

I'll admit to being skeptical - it sounds like you are claiming a shortcut to knowledge that requires years of reading original languages - the surface grammar and "literal" translation is the easy part of language - the part Logos provides excellent tools to support. But actually understanding of the language requires that you are comfortable with the idioms and connotations of the language as used in particular genres and eras. Do the videos approach any of these issues? If so, I am very interested in them.

MJ,

Were you able to watch the video on "bara" at the bottom of pre-pub? It may give you an idea if this videos series is for you. In it Dr. Heiser explores the basics of understanding a word based on its use in a specific context. Ideas like idioms and connotations are the meat of interpretation that we want to focus on, as well as the connotations of morphology. As you said, "translation" is the easy part. In Logos it is basically done for you. So that is why we are focusing on the significance of the data that the software can bring you so the student is equipped to evaluate commentators and lexicons with intelligence. 

Joe Miller said:

seems like a very good resource to help discern how Logos can be used for Greek study.

Reuben, how much of this is covered in the MP seminars? How much is unique to this video set?

Joe 

This content is 100% unique to this series of videos. 

JackCaviness said:

Reuben Evans said:

hanks for your comments. I understand your concerns. And I think it is important what Dr. Heiser sys at the end of the video that "this is not meant to replace traditional Greek and Hebrew courses."

I did not say that the resource had no value. I have ordered it and intend to use it. However, the advertising implies that is it a replacement for traditional training. I received more than 15 hours of content in my first Greek course, and it was not all rote memorization. Beyond the first year, I recall little memorization, but I did have a great deal of application.

 

• Over 15 hours of content taught by Dr. Mike Heiser and Johnny Cisneros using Logos 4. That is equivalent content of an entire college class!
• Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.

 

Thanks for ordering it, Jack. I hope it is a blessing to you. Make sure to let us know your thoughts as you go through it.  It sounds like you had a great experience in class and a prof that emphasized application. Others spend the whole of the first year memorizing vocab. and paradigms with almost zero application. So we hope to bring that application, or "pay off," as Dr. Heiser puts it, upfront.

I should point out that at the end of the video Dr. Heiser says, "Our ultimate goal is not that these videos replace traditional Greek and Hebrew courses..."

For those desiring to do translation work,  or sight-read this course will be a great intro, but not an end-all, be-all. I'm sorry if we communicated that. 15 hours relates to the number of hours in a typical 1 hour/ 1 semester college class. In that respect the volume of instruction is the same as if you took a 1 hour class. "Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes" refers to the Lexicons/grammars/reference works etc... (i.e. tools) that a student would be made familiar with over a typical 3 years of Greek (2 semesters of "Grammar", 2 semesters of Syntax and 2 semesters of Exegesis). 

Hope that helps to clarify things! and thanks again!

Damian McGrath said:

Reuben,

I do hate to harp on this but please go to 2:40 in the introductory video....

"This may sound crazy but what I'm going to say next is sincere....After completing these videos with comprehension you will be at the level of a third year Hebrew or Greek student who was trained by traditional methods, all without memorizing anything....."

 

Damian,

No problem. I see how that could be misunderstood. Dr. Heiser is talking about being at the level of a third year student as in regards to their abilities to use tools for exegesis and their understanding of grammatical/syntatical concepts. Which is the main reason students take the original languages. He wasn't meaning to imply that one would be able to sight-read the text without memorization. So my guess is that he took that distinction for granted, but he did say at the end that it was not a substitute for formal training if you desired to do the memory work that requires (and subsequently obtain the ability to sight-read.) I agree, It could have been clearer.

Damian McGrath said:

But, I'd encourage the marketing people to have a look at the material again and see if it's not appearing to offer more than is intended...  There are a number of places which appear to imply equivalence with 3 years of study (full stop). 

I'll have them take a second a look at it. Thanks, Damian.

Joe Miller said:

Reuben, will the series explore the use of the Cascadia tools?

 We will be doing training videos on using them that will up on the website for free. So this series will not cover them in-depth. But it will be at least several weeks before we see them. However, owning this series will help you tremendously as you interpret the information you get from using the Cascadia tools. Really, at least a basic knowledge of Greek or Hebrew is required to use the Syntax searching tools in Logos 4 effectively. I will be interested to see how people who have taken this course take to using the Syntax searching. It is pretty advanced stuff for just about anybody.

James Macleod said:

Stephen Thorp said:

Will it ever be possible to get the material as two separate modules - i.e Greek and Hebrew?

 

 

I'm interested in this as well. I read Greek already but would be interested in the Hebrew by itself.

Right now I don't know if we will split them up. However, the cost for half the package would be more than the Pre-pub special.

TerryStump said:

why dont i get any sound when playing the 3 videos? i rebooted and tried different brousers, etc.. thanx

You may try to update your Flash plugin, or click the "YouTube" link in the corner of the video to try to watch it on their site. Does anybody else have this problem? 

Mark Barnes said:

I too have ordered the pre-pub and look forward to using the product. To no avail, I nagged my language tutors at seminary to teach me grammar and concepts (which I must to understand) as opposed to vocabulary (which I can look up if necessary). This product looks like exactly what I wanted.

Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others that you're overselling this. It's possible this is a cultural thing, and non-Americans are more sensitive to it. Thankfully not all of us live in a country with billboards on every corner and live television sport constantly interrupted by advertising. As a consequence you don't always have to shout to get attention.

That made me smile. Most of the "regular" (non-pastors/students) thought the video was pretty dull :-) I will say that I have seen all the material that will be covered in this course, and how it is covered. These guys are bringing the goods. We are trying something here that no one else has ever done. So we understand the skepticism. It is the tech in Logos 4 that makes it possible to use the language without typical memory work.

Russ Quinn said:

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

- Let me get back to you on that.

BruceJunkermann said:

Hey Reuben, Got the videos in my prepub list!  Looking forward to some very needed training.  I graduated from seminary almost twenty years ago and am embarrassed to say that my language skills are not what they once were.  I've spent most of my ministry in children's ministry where I have relied on publishers to provide material.  Disappointed with the depth of most material and convinced that children can grasp significant concepts if taught well, I've begun to write my own material for our summer discipleship ministry.   My hope is that these training videos will help me get the most out of the original texts so that I can be accurate in my exegesis and wise in my interpretation and clear in my application.  Thanks again for your efforts.  They are much appreciated!

That'll preach! now you just need a poem :-)  And I can't agree with you more on exegesis in children's ministry. I found that teaching children (and special needs) from my own exegesis forced me to distill the text to its essence, it forced me to have an even better handle on the text in order to explain it in the simplest way possible. I do know that there are some ministries who are trying to "beef up" kids ministry material.