FEATURE SUGGESTION: Turn vowelization on/off in visual filters

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This post has 23 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 14 2013 8:25 AM

Is it possible to add a tick box for turning vowelization on/off in visual filters for Hebrew and Arabic texts? I would really benefit from this.

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 14 2013 12:01 PM

Either that or just provide us a translation without the niqqud, with a right-click feature that would allow it to be opened automatically to whichever verse we are at. Either way, this kind of feature has been requested before.

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 16 2013 2:43 AM

I don't see how this would be too difficult, because all you have to do is program in all the vowel points codes, etc. to be ignored, and the text will be unvowelised.

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Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 17 2013 10:54 AM

Yes

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Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 17 2013 3:18 PM

David Roberts:

I don't see how this would be too difficult, because all you have to do is program in all the vowel points codes, etc. to be ignored, and the text will be unvowelised.

LOL

I think that is a bigger mouthful than you realize...probably more akin to wiring a house than flipping a switch.

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 17 2013 10:14 PM

I'm just saying, I've had Hebrew and Syriac texts that I wanted to remove vowels from before, and I used the replace function in Word to remove them with no problems. You just have to teach logos to become blind to the vowel codes, to regard them as if they're not there, but I do hear you in that I have no idea what obstacles a logos programmer would run into to implement this.

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 19 2013 5:50 AM

David Paul:

David Roberts:

I don't see how this would be too difficult, because all you have to do is program in all the vowel points codes, etc. to be ignored, and the text will be unvowelised.

LOL

I think that is a bigger mouthful than you realize...probably more akin to wiring a house than flipping a switch.

It should not be very difficult to implement. It's possible in html or java (see here for an example of how it's implemented on a webpage for an Arabic version of Genesis 1). It should similarly be straightforward in Logos (not sure in which language the program code is written). 

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 19 2013 5:50 AM

David Paul:

Either that or just provide us a translation without the niqqud, with a right-click feature that would allow it to be opened automatically to whichever verse we are at.

David, this would solve it for that specific bible or book, but not for other texts and languages. (Arabic and Syriac)

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 19 2013 2:53 PM

LOL...since those just look like chicken scratch to me, I was unaware they had vowel pointings.

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 19 2013 4:23 PM

Sleiman:

David Paul:

Either that or just provide us a translation without the niqqud, with a right-click feature that would allow it to be opened automatically to whichever verse we are at.

David, this would solve it for that specific bible or book, but not for other texts and languages. (Arabic and Syriac)



Why not? If you programmed in the vowel codes for Arabic and Syriac, it should work fine.

I've removed vowels from Syriac text in word using replace typing in the vowels, and it works, no problem.

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 6 2013 9:10 AM

David Roberts:
Why not? If you programmed in the vowel codes for Arabic and Syriac, it should work fine.

I've removed vowels from Syriac text in word using replace typing in the vowels, and it works, no problem.
You're right David, I wasn't questioning this; on the contrary, I wanted to point out that this feature does not necessarily mean Logos has to provide two texts for each resource (one with niqqud or vowelization and one without) that would be unnecessary. I thought David Paul was only concerned with the Hebrew bible or one specific translation.

Posts 570
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 17 2015 7:13 AM

Sleiman:

Is it possible to add a tick box for turning vowelization on/off in visual filters for Hebrew and Arabic texts? I would really benefit from this.

BUMP

I need a unvocalised Hebrew text of the HB. I believe this is still not available in Logos.Or am I missing something here?

Hans

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Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 17 2015 8:49 AM

This is a pretty fundamental request. Original Tohraah scrolls did not have pointing, and there are a number of reasons why a person might want to access an unpointed text. Please provide this asap. Thanks.

Posts 570
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 17 2015 9:31 AM

David Paul:

This is a pretty fundamental request. Original Tohraah scrolls did not have pointing, and there are a number of reasons why a person might want to access an unpointed text. Please provide this asap. Thanks.

Yes, it is. I suggest a much simpler way for Logos to make an unvocalized/unpointed text by using the Lexham Hebrew Bible and stripping this of all the extras.

Code name: LHBU.

MacOS Sierra / Logos 7 Collector's Edition & All Base Packages / Logos Now

Posts 435
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 17 2015 11:35 AM

Yes

Posts 4
Mitchel Modine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 31 2015 12:40 AM

Yes! Please! I have a free Bible app on my iPhone that allows turning off vowel points, accents, cantillation marks, etc. with a swipe. So it can be done.

I teach my Hebrew students to read unpointed so it would be wonderful to have it without having to go through the extra step of either eliminating all the stuff or typing out the unpointed Hebrew text myself.

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 31 2015 8:44 PM

I would personally prefer to have a standalone Tanakh without niqquudh that I could link to the rest of my Bibles, rather than have an on/off button. But either is better than neither.

*standalone*     *standalone*     *standalone*    *standalone*     *standalone*     *standalone*     *standalone*

Angel

Posts 112
Tim Finlay | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 18 2015 7:39 PM

I agree with David. 

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 9:33 AM

Hello, everyone. Thanks for the suggestion.

The visual filter technology does not currently allow us to remove any text from the original text stream. With some effort, it could, but for now it doesn't. Once that exists, defining the marks and the visual filter would be trivial. This is something we've been considering for some time. We'll take this as several votes in favor. 

In the meantime, if you have Logos 6, you can use the Text Converter application to remove any level of marks from text before you copy and paste it. 

1. Open the Hebrew Bible of your choice.

2. Select some text and add it to the clipboard with Ctrl+C (PC) or Cmd+C (Mac).

3. Open the Text Converter interactive resource from the Library. (If you're going to do this often, I recommend dragging the book from the library up to the main application shortcuts bar for one-button access.)

4. Paste the text into the Text Converter's input box using Ctrl+V (PC) or Cmd+V (Mac).

5. You will see several outputs based on your input text, including several transliteration options and several levels of marks.

Hope this helps!

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 9:35 AM

David Paul:
I would personally prefer to have a standalone Tanakh without niqquudh that I could link to the rest of my Bibles, rather than have an on/off button. But either is better than neither.

If we were to make the visual filter, we'd make it so that you can have two panels of the same text open and linked, one with the filter on, one with it off.

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