We need more books on the Doctrine of Hell

Page 2 of 4 (65 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 64 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 12:40 AM

NB.Mick:

MJ. Smith:

  • Death and Afterlife: A Theological Introduction by Terence Nichols

This is in Vyrso, btw.

An absolutely lovely and helpful book that I very much appreciated!              *smile*

Psalm 29:11

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 26484
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 1:42 AM

You know you need more time when you check the book out on Vyrso only to discover you already own it. More time is obviously a better solution than less resources.Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 72
papa_gowgow | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 2:29 AM

MJ. Smith:

You know you need more time when you check the book out on Vyrso only to discover you already own it. More time is obviously a better solution than less resources.Big Smile

It was a freebie in June last year.  God bless Logos & Vyrso for their charitable deeds Cool

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 8:16 AM

Mark thanks for this suggestion.  I bought the book but will only use the chapter you recommended for the reasons you suggested.  I think the Jesus Seminar people need prayer (enough said).

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 8:30 AM

For the sake of balance (and having my own views represented), I'll suggest the following:

Rob Bell's "Love Wins" would probably be a reasonable addition, at least to Vyrso, due to its popularity. Bell isn't a universalist, and the type of universalism he leaves open in his book is (IMHO) too heavily tied to the typically thin American definition of free will, but it's gotten a lot of conversations going.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 8:49 AM

Mitchell:

For the sake of balance (and having my own views represented), I'll suggest the following:

Rob Bell's "Love Wins" would probably be a reasonable addition, at least to Vyrso, due to its popularity. Bell isn't a universalist, and the type of universalism he leaves open in his book is (IMHO) too heavily tied to the typically thin American definition of free will, but it's gotten a lot of conversations going.

Yes

Posts 1599
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 21 2013 10:08 AM

And Bonda - The One Purpose of God.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 22 2013 1:45 PM

Mitchell thanks for your humorous reply. I read Francis Chan instead. 
I am interested in having Christ's views represented in my sermon.

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 12:03 AM

Joshua Lieder:

Mitchell thanks for your humorous reply. I read Francis Chan instead. 
I am interested in having Christ's views represented in my sermon.

It sounds like you read the book whose conclusion you already agree with. I wonder, are you truly seeking Christ's views, or merely looking to bolster your own?

This is not the time nor place to dive into this debate, but my views are 1) rooted in Scripture, which I believe to be the final rule of faith and practice and 2) consistent with historic orthodoxy as attested by the creeds, confession, and church fathers. I'm not absolutely committed to the universalist position, but it seems to require less hermeneutical gymnastics than the alternatives (Calvinism and Arminianism, primarily). I'm always open to a respectful discussion, so if you're interested in talking more please let me know and I'll get you my contact info. I mean this quite sincerely, I would love to hear you out on this if you're up for a civil conversation.

EDIT: Just to avoid confusion, I do believe hell exists, I just don't exclude the possibility (probability even, given the repeated promises of God's total victory) that it will, in the very long term, be empty due to sinners repenting and turning to Christ. If I thought there was no hell at all, your accusation of ignoring Christ's teaching would be entirely appropriate, but a quick reading of any of the book I mentioned would assure you that Evangelical Universalists believe no such thing.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 3:13 AM

Mitchell:
it seems to require less hermeneutical gymnastics than the alternatives
Yes

Posts 159
David Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 1:04 PM

Not the classical view, but I recommend Edward Fudge's The Fire That Consumes.

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 1:18 PM

Mitchell,

(lifting what Jesus said from my sermon below). 

Respectfully, What if you are dead wrong, Sir?  Can you live with what I've underlined below?

Let’s look at verse 15 first (I underlined for emphasis):

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. [1]

Skip down to verse 29

29       “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,

30       and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

31       “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

32       Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt.

33       Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? [2]

Mitchell, would you actually argue with God?  I would hate to think of you (and those you convince, lead, or teach) in Hell where your/their worm would not die, where you would rot forever and be separated from God forever.

Are you gnashing your teeth at God, Mitchell? 


[1] The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 23:15.

[2] The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 23:29–33.

Posts 18668
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 1:45 PM

Mitchell probably could teach us all a thing or two about Hell because he has the letters "H-E-L-L" (in that order, with no intervening letters) in his name. Smile

This posts means nothing at all; I just love word play.

Posts 26484
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 2:05 PM

Joshua Lieder:
Are you gnashing your teeth at God, Mitchell? 

Joshua, I believe you have crossed the line and are now trying to push your theology rather than asking for assistance with Logos. Please remind yourself of the guidelines of the forum and abide by them.

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

  1. Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
  2. Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions. ...

Admittedly this is not the first post in the thread to cross the line but  ....

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 999
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 2:15 PM

Let this then be our sacred rule, to seek to know nothing concerning it, except what Scripture teaches us: when the Lord closes his holy mouth, let us also stop the way, that we may not go farther. 

Calvin, J., & Owen, J. (2010). Commentary on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans (354). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

Posts 249
Giovanni Baggio | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 2:27 PM

Joshua Lieder:

We need more books on the Doctrine of Hell and What Jesus specifically said about it?

I would begin with WHATEVER HAPPENED TO HELL? by John Blanchard.

Why isn't this important book in the Logos collection please?  

p.s. (Yes I know about Chan's book, Erasing Hell, thanks and no I am not interested AT ALL with Rob Bell's sad errant bestseller either).

You make me laugh dude, isn't the Bible enough for you to read about hell and what Jesus said about it? Go read it and you might just get what you're looking for it's been there for a little over 2K years Angel   aaaah and by the way the Bible is available in Logos and is more important than any other book collection you can get Wink so important that even Satan thinks it's good to quote it Devil 

blessings my little children!

Giovanni

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 2:36 PM

Giovanni Baggio:

You make me laugh dude, isn't the Bible enough for you to read about hell and what Jesus said about it? Go read it and you might just get what you're looking for it's been there for a little over 2K years Angel   aaaah and by the way the Bible is available in Logos and is more important than any other book collection you can get Wink so important that even Satan thinks it's good to quote it Devil 

blessings my little children!

Giovanni

Great point. My entire Logos collection, excluding Bibles, is now up for sale.

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 2:41 PM

Just kidding, of course. Smile

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 4:21 PM

Giovanni Baggio:

You make me laugh dude, isn't the Bible enough for you ...

 

I frequently fall short, and at the risk of steering off coarse a little, I always appreciate (and need) instruction ... ACTS 8:26ff

 

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 23 2013 11:48 PM

Joshua Lieder:

Mitchell,

(lifting what Jesus said from my sermon below). 

Respectfully, What if you are dead wrong, Sir?  Can you live with what I've underlined below?

Let’s look at verse 15 first (I underlined for emphasis):

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. [1]

Skip down to verse 29

29       “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,

30       and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

31       “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

32       Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt.

33       Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? [2]

Mitchell, would you actually argue with God?  I would hate to think of you (and those you convince, lead, or teach) in Hell where your/their worm would not die, where you would rot forever and be separated from God forever.

Are you gnashing your teeth at God, Mitchell? 


[1] The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 23:15.

[2] The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Mt 23:29–33.

I certainly hope I'm not gnashing my teeth at God. My intention is only to interpret Scripture faithfully, including but not limited to the parts you quoted. Again, I do believe in hell, and take it quite seriously, but I think our doctrine of its nature and longevity (neither of which are addressed in the verses you cited) must be interpreted consistently with the promises given in the rest of Scripture.

I would love to respond more specifically, but as others have pointed out we've already passed the boundaries of this forum's purpose. If you're interested in continuing the conversation, send me an email at spamofmitch at gmail dot com (I'll give you my regular email address, but I don't want the spam that comes with putting it on a forum).

Page 2 of 4 (65 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS