Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget

Page 2 of 3 (45 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 44 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 8 2013 5:21 PM

elnwood:

Kent:

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

Source? That seems rather unbelievable to me. There are gobs of Southern Baptist bible colleges around. Of the eight largest seminaries in America, five of them are Southern Baptist. 40% haven't had any college? Really?

Indeed - I am attending one. However I know three maybe four pastors personally who would fit that category.

Also the SBC is a large denomination.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2148
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 9:51 AM

Kent:
According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

I'm beyond the age of someone going to seminary (some Bible school after college) and my decision to go with Logos was based on the value it provides me by comparison to seminary. Even if I went to seminary, I'd still need Logos.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 11:23 AM

I think this whole thread is creating a false dichotomy or two...

Firstly that one cannot be a pastor and not have a massive Library. There are good pastors in the third world, and in difficult countries that are doing well to have a full copy of the Bible.

HOWEVER I do believe standing on the shoulders of those who've gone before can take a good pastor and make him great.

Secondly that a pastor MUST have ALL the tools he might possibly need right from the start.

We are not plumbers, first day on the job we are not going to need a pipe snake.

As pastors in the digital age, should we encounter someone who needs a pipe snake, we can buy its equivalent from Logos, and clear their plug, and move on. It is NICE to have everything you can imagine needing in advance. However with the cloud and instant delivery, for a few dollars, one can acquire what tools one needs as one goes.

All that said, I have i think in the neighborhood of 4000 titles.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2421
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 11:34 AM

abondservant:

I think this whole thread is creating a false dichotomy or two...

Firstly that one cannot be a pastor and not have a massive Library.
Secondly that a pastor MUST have ALL the tools he might possibly need right from the start.

Yes

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 12:11 PM

A good question to ask, is: how much primary texts are needed?

I'm thinking of paying Post-Reformation Catholic Thought and Piety (27 vols.) that I bid on in CP, it's $70. Anyone knows whether it would be good to have? How edifying are these texts? This afternoon I bought a cheap printed book in Swedish that had very brief excerpts and biographies of a few of those. They seem decent. But it's still difficult to decide.
Also wondering whether I should get Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology of Historical Sources (4 vols.) for $99? I have the first volume as printed matter.

Anthologies and select works would save time, I'm just wondering are these good value for the money? I got the first volume in the Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology very cheap as printed matter.

Also, would I have use for this: The Works of Aristotle (12 vols.) It would cost me $40. What could it be used for? I'm not very fond of philosophy, but it seemed a little less strange than Plato.

I have a long-term budget, (Creating a budget and cancelling orders) but have been placing pre-pub and CP orders for too many $ on April 26. 2013 and June 30. - July 9. 2013, and the list of open pre-pub orders is starting to look too expensive at this stage (there may come better works in the future which I would prefer over the ones that exist now).

Those dates I've been placing especially Church History, recent Pauline scholarship and primary texts orders. What worries me about the major Church History pre-pub order, is I regret it if there comes better books in the future! Also: reviews say that it's a bit dry. Another thing that worries me about it, is that it probably doesn't deal enough with "Gnosticism".

(Of all the open pre-pub orders and CP bids I have, many will make it into production in a distant future, so even though I've been placing a lot of pre-pub and CP orders in a relatively short amount of time, they will spread over years.)

I have more questions in: Outdated and expensive.

 


When it comes to the OP, I might recommend: Catholic Practicum: Learn to Use Logos Bible Software ... it helps choosing among Catholic books! And there's tuition how to use the software. Plus a bit of Gk.
Another bit of advice is that I would wait with buying a base-package, and see if there comes any changes to them in the Winter or Spring, considering that base-packages are changed more frequently than the frequency of major software versions.
I would of course recommend The Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (3 vols.), A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, Proverbs, The Bible in Human Transformation: Toward a New Paradigm in Bible Study.

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 5,850own
12G A9-9420 V8.3 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 1588
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 1:04 PM

abondservant:
I think this whole thread is creating a false dichotomy or two...

I am admittedly standing in a quite different place that most of you in this discussion.  First of all, I am not clergy, and am not even lay leadership other than occasionally singing a solo, leading a Psalm, reading, or assisting with distribution.  I am on no church boards.  I currently teach no lessons, etc...  Second, I am a member of a body that does requires her pastors to graduate from a seminary with a Master's degree and a year full time internship before ordination.  This talk about pastors without even an undergrad degree is a different world for me.

But that said, while I understand that if Jesus can grow in wisdom (Lk 2.52), our pastors, with the help of God can as well.  This side of the grave we are all works in progress, so to speak.  But there is a reason for the requirements in 1 Tim 3.  But I don't want someone who "knows it all" - in fact, THOSE people in my experience don't know anywhere as much as they think.

But tough pastoral problems that will tax what you know will come your way.  Heck - some of them have happened to me.  It has been said that experience is the worst teacher because it gives the test before the lesson.

And while having a large library is helpful, it is much more helpful to know what is in there already - and that means study.  In Bible Studies I do have my laptop there, and at times reference it as an aid to memory.  And yes, sometimes when a topic comes up I will quickly check some reliable reference works for details.  But to do this I have to know where to look, and the format and, well, context of what I look up - and that takes study ahead of time.

At best, our Logos libraries give access to knowledge.  But wisdom of how to apply it?  That comes with prayer and experience.

SDG

Ken McGuire

PS - I did just get a new Pastor - and he does have a larger Logos library base package than I (Platinum vs. Original Languages)

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 737
Evan Boardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 1:43 PM

Unix:
Also, would I have use for this: The Works of Aristotle (12 vols.) It would cost me $40. What could it be used for? I'm not very fond of philosophy, but it seemed a little less strange than Plato.

As a reference if you do any studies on ethics and social thought.

Posts 2816
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 4:54 PM

 

JRS:

Mark Smith:

... commentary starvation.

This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!

Yes, but the poor would soon be hungry again, and the $1,000 would be gone.  Mark is talking about feeding peoples' souls for a lifetime.  In addition, teaching the Word of God correctly should result in many more people feeding the poor. 

You might as well say the carpenter should sell his hammer, saw, and other tools to feed the poor.  Not a very wise way to go about it, and it shows a real lack of understanding about the tools of a carpenter's or pastor's work. 

You can be a carpenter without good tools, but you can be a better pastor with good tools.  Same is true for a pastor.  Good tools cost some money. 

I agree with Mark on this.  What he wrote is quite true.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 6473
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 5:10 PM

Am I going senile, or is it true that the original poster has not commented any further on this thread?

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 9032
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 8:20 PM

Lynden Williams:
Am I going senile, or is it true that the original poster has not commented any further on this thread?

Paul just issued this as a challenge. So far, not that many of us have responded to his $1,000 limit with a good library. I don't think he meant that this was necessarily something he wanted to take advantage of. More theory than anything.

I am sympathetic to those who pastor with what Charles Spurgeon called 'slim apparatus.' I had little money for a big library as a young pastor and my church couldn't help much at that point. Things have changed and I am able to afford what I feel I need and the church can be very supportive. I know not everyone has what I have.

I think comparing a pastor in a developed country with one in a third world country is not completely helpful in this discussion. Many of us in more developed countries with greater levels of higher education, highly secular media, and whose people have access to a universe of information over the media and the Internet may have issues to deal with that most of our brothers and sisters in under-developed countries do not have to deal with. Many resources have been developed to help with those issues and many of us find them highly valuable in our ministry.

I also believe that many of our brothers and sisters with only a Bible to do ministry would be delighted to have more. I am sure most of them feel the need for it, just as they do for more training and education.

We're clearly well off focus here, so I'll sign off, but in developed nations (my frame of reference) a good tool-kit is something few pastors would not profit from and I suspect all but a few would desire. They don't need it all at once and probably are not ready to make the best choices just starting out. But they will want it, and I am sure will benefit from it as their congregations also will.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 9:06 PM

Tools for Gk don't seem cheap enough to be included in the $1,000, but I think they (the language) are/(is) necessary.

I had another suggestion which is really good, but I'm not going to make the suggestion as I think people should be clever enough to place the order without it having to be included in a future base-package first (it starts with N), I will have it both as printed matter and in Logos myself:

Mark Smith:
We're clearly well off focus here, so I'll sign off, but in developed nations (my frame of reference) a good tool-kit is something few pastors would not profit from and I suspect all but a few would desire. They don't need it all at once and probably are not ready to make the best choices just starting out. But they will want it, and I am sure will benefit from it as their congregations also will.

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 5,850own
12G A9-9420 V8.3 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 9 2013 9:38 PM

Unix:
Tools for Gk don't seem cheap enough to be included in the $1,000, but I think they (the language) are/(is) necessary.

Academic package => http://www.logos.com/product/27551/biblical-languages has many Biblical Language resources for $ 749.95

Academic pricing for resources that are required for class can be attractive.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 12:36 PM

Ken McGuire:

At best, our Logos libraries give access to knowledge.  But wisdom of how to apply it?  That comes with prayer and experience.

SDG

Ken McGuire

PS - I did just get a new Pastor - and he does have a larger Logos library base package than I (Platinum vs. Original Languages)

Yes

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 4:21 PM

Thanks a lot, Evan!
Anyone more who could answer some of my questions in this thread (or the other thread Outdated and expensive)?

EDIT: Symptomatic: I just placed another pre-pub order on a collection consisting mostly of theology, history and NT works incl. 1 on how to study patristics.

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 5,850own
12G A9-9420 V8.3 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 8:45 PM

Unix, your best bet is going to be to make a new thread.

... And I don't mean make a thread that simply has links to this thread, and the other.

Re-state succinctly what you are wanting to know. Give it an intriguing title, and then more people will read it.

Burying it at the bottom of the second page is less likely to get your post the attention that you need.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2037
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 1 2013 9:26 AM

Would You recommend me the Catholic Practicum DVD? Many of the beliefs of the Roman-Catholic Church I don't believe in, but I do believe in Purgatory in Afterlife, and that works matter! (I'm not considering purchasing any other instruction videos, either made by Logos or someone else.) I have Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software since before, which I got for $203.37 including postage:

Unix:
When it comes to the OP, I might recommend: Catholic Practicum: Learn to Use Logos Bible Software ... it helps choosing among Catholic books! And there's tuition how to use the software. Plus a bit of Gk.

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 5,850own
12G A9-9420 V8.3 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 1 2013 12:25 PM

Kent:
According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

According to the thesis that I found online the actual number is closer to 10%. We have visited one such SBC church and the pastor is a carpenter by day and pastor by weekend. I know there is a significant number of small rural churches that don't have a pastor with formal training.

Nine of 10 Southern Baptist congregations have the services of an ongoing pastor,
either regular or interim. The typical pastor is 48 years old. The majority of Southern
Baptist pastors have college degrees and seminary degrees. Only 1 in 10 Southern
Baptist pa'Stors has no formal ministerial education. The typical tenure for pastors is 4
years.28

28Phillip B. Jones, "Executive Summary of Southern Baptist Congregations Today, September
2004 [Research Report online]; available from http://www.namb.net/atfi.cf{COA250E8-8866-4236-9AOCC646DE
1534463} Southern _ Baptist_Congregations Today-pdf. Internet; accessed 5 August 2005.

THE ROLE OF THE PASTOR IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES:
A BIBLICAL VIEW VERSES A PREVAILING VIEW

Submitted to Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 1 2013 5:55 PM

David Ames:

P A:

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

A) with no Greek       

Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.

To bad everyone [so far] is on the "Expensive" side of Logos.

A new pastor at a Catholic Church could spend a lot less - and it would be useful for his entire career. [[The advantage of a unified church]]

Verbum Basic $269.95
Plus
Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) $49.95

Even if he upgraded to:
Verbum Foundations      $489.95  or 
Verbum Scripture Study $889.95

He is still under the grand limit

David, 

I believe that the resources in the Catechism Collection are all part of the Verbum Basic.  ... I think?

I might be inclined to start with Verbum Foundations as it add Aquinas' Summa and Sunday Homilies and John Henry Newman's corpus along with additional datasets and other goodies.  Here is an interesting scenario:

Verbum Foundations:  $490

Liturgical Press Reference Collection:  $110

Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI Collection (14 vols.):  $169

Apostolic Constitutions and Exhortations of John Paul II and Benedict XVI (51 vols.):  $70

Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament, Genesis, Exodus, and the RSV2CE:  $45

Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body:  $26

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church:  $18

Missals of the Roman Catholic Church (3 vols.):  $70

I think that gets you to $998 total.  ...and a very nice start.

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 2 2013 8:28 AM

Mark Smith:
I am sympathetic to those who pastor with what Charles Spurgeon called 'slim apparatus

I find it interesting that today I can find free online resources that are much better  and far more extensive than the library I started out with at the first church I pastored (including better original language tools).  I believe I would have been ecstatic to have the collection that Mark suggested (although I would like to add the WBC to that when it goes on sale).  I also feel blessed that today we are can have library on a laptop that is better than the cemetery seminary library at the school I attended Party!!!

Posts 9855
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 2 2013 10:16 AM

I assume seminary is for creedal understanding / checkoffs.  That how I figure out where an author sits, absent buying his book anyway. 

 In congregations that embrace local 'management' accompanied by elders (theology here; not arguing), anything not readable in the text might be interesting but not significant (meaning what goes 'home' with the believer is what matters).

Personally a pastor that went to school is suspect right off.  In the COC, one couldn't possibly 'preach the Word' and go to the wrong Bible college.  Not this side of Heaven, anyway. 

But, I'm always impressed that NT leadership descriptions didn't include 'ability to read' (though many try to get 'study' squeezed in there).  

My logic is that you find almost no one quoting text until a century later after Paul's demise.  Of course some nasty liberals suggest there's a big reason for that.


Page 2 of 3 (45 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS