Receiving vs. Baptized

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wendy smentkowski | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jul 27 2013 3:39 PM

I have noticed a difference of belief amongst many Christians today regarding whether receiving the Holy Spirit is the same as being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I have searched and so far have not found it mentioned anywhere in my Bible stating that there are two baptisms. I am being told that the only way to know that you are baptized in the Spirit is if you speak in tongues. I have read that speaking in tongues is one of the Gifts of the Spirit, although have not found anywhere where it says this is the only outward sign that you have been Baptized in the Spirit.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2013 3:51 PM

Welcome to the forums Wendy. In your search panel in Logos, type tongues NEAR baptism.

I would recommend that you run a search on your encyclopedias and dictionaries first. This give you a feel for the subject. I asked Logos to use Heading Text and Large Text by selecting the term "All text" which is blue in colour.  logos4:Search;kind=Basic;q=gift_of_tongues;match=stem

This search looks for books with the "title, topic" with the words "gift of tongues" logos4:Search;kind=Basic;q=gift_of_tongues;match=stem switch the words to baptism of the holy spirit when you are finished.

In the library type subject:tongues  or try subject:baptism

Hope this helps.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2013 3:53 PM

Also try: http://topics.logos.com/search.aspx?q=baptism+of+the+holy+spirit

or http://topics.logos.com/Gift_of_Tongues

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2013 5:17 PM

wendy smentkowski:

I have noticed a difference of belief amongst many Christians today regarding whether receiving the Holy Spirit is the same as being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I have searched and so far have not found it mentioned anywhere in my Bible stating that there are two baptisms. I am being told that the only way to know that you are baptized in the Spirit is if you speak in tongues. I have read that speaking in tongues is one of the Gifts of the Spirit, although have not found anywhere where it says this is the only outward sign that you have been Baptized in the Spirit.

Welcome to the forums, Wendy. Though theological discussions are discouraged on these forums, helping each other use Logos for answers to our theological questions is well within the bounds of the forum guidelines.

In that regard, you will find different answers to your questions depending on the theological and historical stream of the authors you read. What you are describing sounds very much like a classic Pentecostal outline of these things. If you would like to explore other possible answers to your question, I would highly recommend R.A. Torrey's The Baptism with the Holy Spirit and The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit. Even if you don't agree with everything he says (I don't), you may find him helpful. Note much or what he wrote here is in contrast to both the Pentecostals and the non-Pentecostals of his day.

You can also do some searching in your current library as was already suggested. If you go to Logos.com and type "tongue speaking" (without quotes) in the search bar, you will find numerous other resources that will be of varying quality and diverging perspectives (including those who believe speaking in tongues is not for today).

There is much, much more that can be said on the topics you mentioned, but it would be difficult to speak about them in a meaningful way without beginning a theological conversation (which, as I said, is discouraged on these forums).

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2013 5:49 PM

Richard, I both of Torrey's books from Libronix days. When I conduct a search on the word baptism, using the title field to narrows results, it does not list any books. logos4:Search;kind=Basic;q=baptism;match=stem 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2013 7:21 PM

Lynden Williams:

Richard, I both of Torrey's books from Libronix days. When I conduct a search on the word baptism, using the title field to narrows results, it does not list any books. logos4:Search;kind=Basic;q=baptism;match=stem 

I'd suggest simply opening the books and starting from the table of contents. Since these are older works, it's possible that the title field isn't properly tagged. The entire book The Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is about this topic, so it would be difficult to narrow it down, even if a search would work properly. I just found it and opened it with my library browser (CTRL-L).

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 27 2013 10:45 PM

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Hi Windy,

 

I commend you for seeking the answer to your question from the Bible. Many today follow a theology or just believe the individual wearing a nice outfit behind the microphone. I believe this question and others can be found in the word of God. It’s not up to us to decide –the correct way in my opinion is to spend time in the scriptures at the feet of Jesus drawing truth from the Bible under the direction of the Holy Spirit and allowing God to mold our thinking to line up with the truth from scripture. I know this way may sound old fashion, but the time spent with the Master is the most rewarding and worthwhile time there is.

 

There are numerous books available in Logos where you can find what the “scholars” have to say. Although there is value in these books, please spend more time in the Word of God and read the Bible different than books written by man.  This is my opinion. I will pray for you as you seek the truth. And welcome to the forums.

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wendy smentkowski | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 6:11 AM

I would like to thank everyone of you for responding to my question. I sincerely apologize for going against the rules and regulations set forth for us.     ( as you can tell, I didn't read them). I have now found out how to correctly request the information in which to help guide me into better understanding of what Scripture says. I enjoy reading imensly, and welcome any reading which would guide me. I have come to Christ a year ago and God spoke to me when I asked the question " God, who am I to you?" " You are a Disciple of Christ", was His response. With that being said, I need to make sure I am Biblicly correct, and not intellectually correct.

 

Again,

Thank you for the time you have given me in searching for the knowledge.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 6:34 AM

wendy smentkowski:

I have noticed a difference of belief amongst many Christians today regarding whether receiving the Holy Spirit is the same as being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I have searched and so far have not found it mentioned anywhere in my Bible stating that there are two baptisms. I am being told that the only way to know that you are baptized in the Spirit is if you speak in tongues. I have read that speaking in tongues is one of the Gifts of the Spirit, although have not found anywhere where it says this is the only outward sign that you have been Baptized in the Spirit.

The traditional view is that after baptism one is then anointed with oil in the form of a cross on the forehead.  It is this chrism which is said to confer the Holy Spirit.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 8:02 AM

wendy smentkowski:
I sincerely apologize for going against the rules and regulations set forth for us.

I'm not sure you directly violated the rules (guidelines, actually). But it was tempting for us in responding to your question to do so! There is a lot of grace here for new posters, especially for those that intend to keep to the guidelines.

wendy smentkowski:
I have come to Christ a year ago and God spoke to me when I asked the question " God, who am I to you?" " You are a Disciple of Christ", was His response.

What a great testimony of God's goodness and grace! You are already a disciple even as you just begin! That sounds just like God to me. Welcome to the family of God and His glorious Kingdom!

wendy smentkowski:
I need to make sure I am Biblicly correct, and not intellectually correct.

The two are not opposed to each other, since the Bible is not intellectually incorrect. Though it does say "Lean not on your own understanding," (Prov. 3:5) it also says "Come let us reason together..." (Isaiah 1:18). We won't get it by intellect alone, but an intellect submitted to God is a good thing (Prov. 9:10)

I would agree that the Bible is the only final authority to answer your question. But you have not been the only one to ask your questions. Looking at how others, with the Bible, have answered your questions may give you fresh insight, or deeper insight into what the Bible says. Refusing to listen to others, as if God has never worked through anyone but us, or in any time other than ours is, well, arrogant and foolish (Prov.15:12; 22:17).

That is what was behind my suggestions of Torrey (above). Not that you would read one of the great revivalists of the late 1800's and early 1900's of and set your Bible aside, but that you would read him with Bible in hand and explore his approach to the relevant texts that deal with your question. Then ask yourself, is he right? Where do I agree/differ with him and why? Note that Torrey wrote The Baptism of the Holy Spirit in 1895, around 5 years before the outbreak of tongues among Charles Parham's students in Topeka  in late 1900, and more than 10 years before the Azusa street revival of 1903 (considered by most the birth of the Pentecostal movement). He wrote The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit four years after. I have personally found his approach to your questions helpful, and not unduly influenced by excesses (real and imagined) in early Pentecostalism. If you like to read, he's someone to put on your list (IMHO).

I would hope that others would suggest other authors available in Logos to help you in your search for Biblical truth.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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