Forum manners in an ideal world

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 7:35 AM

Super Tramp:

Paul Golder:
I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!"

Paul, are you saying the Apostle started the movement to feminize the Bible?

Now that's funny Big Smile

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 7:44 AM

JRS:
Butters contra mundum.

I stand with Sparticus  Butters.  

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JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 7:49 AM

Super Tramp:

I stand with Sparticus  Butters.  

 

Me too.  It was a refreshing post although I confess to having to research "Carol Gilligan-ated".

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 8:01 AM

I think probably the adjectives normally associated with women, being self-applied to males is the confusing part. Feisty "phallic discourse".


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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 8:05 AM

Butters:
However, I have noticed that there is a decided aversion in this forum (and elsewhere) to feisty and spirited debate;

Part of the reason for that is that the forum guidelines tell us that this is not a place for debate, spirited or otherwise.

Butters:
 And look on with chagrin at its loss in a verbal culture that has been so . . . feminized.

To consider politeness to being feminine and 'rough and tumble...verbal debate' to being masculine is to live in a world I do not live in. I know too many 'rough and tumble' sharp-tongued women and too many 'polite' men. I don't believe the traits to which you refer are inherently feminine or masculine, but rather aggressive vs. passive-aggressive (would that be fair?). Honestly, I do prefer aggressive to passive-aggressive, in the way I prefer bullets to booby-traps. On the other hand, both types of aggression (overt vs. covert), make me suspicious that the person holding the position is not totally convinced him/herself.

As to your 'charge' that agreement with the consensus is treated differently than disagreement as to degrees of politeness, I must say that I haven't seen it quite that way, but I do try to avoid the debate threads as much as possible. I wish I were better at it. And I even wonder whether I should debate you about the nature of debate in this thread. (!)

Note: I have no idea who Carol Gilligan is, except for what I skimmed in a wikipedia article.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 8:09 AM

Denise:
I think probably the adjectives normally associated with women, being self-applied to males is the confusing part.

You know, if you inverse this statement, you end up with inclusive Bible translation philosophy. 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 8:19 AM

Very true. Sirach was the last writer that knew which side of the bread had the butter. 


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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 8:20 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
On the other hand, both types of aggression (overt vs. covert), make me suspicious that the person holding the position is not totally convinced him/herself

Now that's passive-aggressive!

I once had a feminist say my having lots of children was my attempt to convince myself I was not a homosexual. I just (confidently) assured her I needed no convincing.

Richard DeRuiter:
Note: I have no idea who Carol Gilligan is, except for what I skimmed in a wikipedia article.

Me either. Butters could have just said Gilligan and accomplished the same message. Confused

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 9:31 AM

Super Tramp:

Richard DeRuiter:
Note: I have no idea who Carol Gilligan is, except for what I skimmed in a wikipedia article.

Me either. Butters could have just said Gilligan and accomplished the same message. Confused

+1. I suspected a connection to Gilligan's Island, but after having read a bit about Carol and the "ethics of care" approach, I think this reference is butt on *) 

My, male, summary of what I learned in ten minutes: "for the feminine side (however defined) of ethics, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, but only that relationships don't get hurt". While I concede that some of Butters' observations are not totally out of place, I think it's a legitime interest of Logos as our provider and rule-maker as well as of the many forum users coming from very different areas of faith (or even un-faith) to make sure that people won't get hurt here. And we have no chance to establish who is or was right or wrong in faith, dogmatics, practice or even history. Going round circle, however, this IMO entitles Butters and others to hold a critical view against e.g. the mainstream "Abrahamic ecumenic" view of Islam. Logos should provide resources to research such questions from various angles - but we probably won't be able to reach a consensus here.

Mick

*) non-native speaker's weak attempt at a pun - normally we should refrain from even trying. Please don't whack me with hard, blunt & phallic-looking objects, I will edit my post if it hurts anyone.... 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 10:34 AM

Big Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:39 PM

I learned to argue well from my father ... mother would often ask to be let out of the car rather than listen.Stick out tongue

However, I learned to argue in the context of a small community - 3 room school for 8 grades; town of 125 counting Grandma's goats. Being able to rely upon one's neighbor was a higher value than proving one's self to be right. Drive off the dirt road in a snow storm and you want to trust the closest neighbor ... who was bound to be within a couple of miles most the time.

I also learned to argue in an academic environment from the head of my committee. He was so "sweet" that some students became sick the first few days he was back from sabbatical. Luckily, professors around the world had the utmost respect for him ... and did not want to work on joint projects with him.

I learned to reason from Dad and from a computer ... a billion dollar payroll does not allow for errors

I learned from experience that being aggressive rather than factual guarantees I will be ineffective.

Not sure where masculine/feminine fit into it. My style is closest to Dad and my elder brother. Mother, my sister and my other brother are less argumentative ... perhaps that is why the older brother was a research engineer ... and the younger was university administration.

P.S. Coalescent Argumentation by Michael A. Gilbert presents a model that I believe to fit well in the context of religious discussion as does An Apology for Apologetics: A Study in the Logic of Interreligious Dialogue by Griffiths, Paul J.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:49 PM

MJ. Smith:
I learned from experience that being aggressive rather than factual guarantees I will be ineffective.

What a great life lesson for us all to learn. I would add that even being factual without expressing care will also result in ineffectiveness. A person might win the argument but lose the relationship.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 1:55 PM

Bruce Dunning:
I would add that even being factual without expressing care will also result in ineffectiveness. A person might win the argument but lose the relationship.

You are right... and I'm often not good at that end 'cause the computer didn't care.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 888
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:16 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

  1. Not every disagreement is worthy a response.

I simply wanted to agree with you, but now I'm in doubt as to whether agreement might disqualify my response on the basis of worthiness. :)

"I read dead people..."

Posts 888
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2013 4:21 PM

MJ. Smith:

I learned from experience that being aggressive rather than factual guarantees I will be ineffective.

And I keep having to re-learn that aggression negates even the most factual and well reasoned arguments.

"I read dead people..."

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 5:42 AM

NB.Mick:

 I suspected a connection to Gilligan's Island,

 

After reading this thread, I got the theme song for "Gilligan's Island" stuck in my head, so much so that I had to change it to "Logos Island".  The following is meant only for humorous and entertainment purposes.  :)

Logos Island (to the tune of Gilligan's Island)

Just sit right back

And you'll hear a tale,

A tale of a fateful trip,

That started on Golgotha's hill,

and ended in a tomb.

 

The Christ was a mighty saving man,

though hung on a cross for sure,

Salvations plan was set that day,

After three days in the tomb,

after three days in the tomb.

The Romans started getting rough,

The mighty Lord was pierced,

If not for the plan of an awesome God,

The sinners would be lost,

The sinners would be lost.

 

The Saviour rose on Sunday morn

The Messiah to be seen,

By Gilligan,

The Skipper too.

The millionaire

And his wife.

The movie star,

the professor and May Ann,

Here on Logos Island.

 

Gilligan played by Unix

The Skipper played by Michael Childs,

The millionaire played by fgh

His wife played by Denise,

The movie star played by Butters

The professor played by Thomas Black

Mary Ann played by MJ

 

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 6:14 AM

Pretty good Michael. Except that fgh is not a 'his' but a 'her' so can't be the millionaire. She may be in real life though.

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 6:52 AM

Sleiman:

Pretty good Michael. Except that fgh is not a 'his' but a 'her' so can't be the millionaire. She may be in real life though.

We can swap fgh and Butters.  ;)

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 6:58 AM

Michael:

Sleiman:

Pretty good Michael. Except that fgh is not a 'his' but a 'her' so can't be the millionaire. She may be in real life though.

We can swap fgh and Butters.  ;)

I don't know.  The resemblance is rather striking: 

AND....

~Butters Smile

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2013 7:15 AM

Paul Golder:

Richard DeRuiter:
I'm not likely to change anyone's mind about whatever we disagree on.

I fear that if this was heeded, the internet would be a quiet, lonely place. (insert photo of a tumbleweed rolling down the street of a ghost town here)

Right !  MJ, are you trying to create "the best of all possible worlds"?  We'll be bored out of our gourd.  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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