Pretty please fix my pet peeve ... it's not a pet I like

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Oct 11 2013 1:41 PM

With the new study Bibles, I am yet again reminded that on mouse over, they do not display the text being commented  on (rather they show my default Bible)  ... rather I have to go into prioritization and create yet another record in a very long and unmanageable list. PLEASE add the translation on which the notes are based to the metadata and make it the default for mouse over (with the ability to retain current behavior if wanted). Note that this implies that the translation upon which the study bible is based is available in Logos.

Two related requests/peeves:

  • Make commentaries display base text in the same way as requested above for study Bibles
  • Make references within resources that specifically state the translation, display the translation cited e.g. "Gen 1:1" displays my default Bible (currently NRSV) while "Gen 1:1 NIV" displays the NIV regardless of my default

Note this is not a problem with my dead-tree books so it is useability lost in going to Logos editions ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 2:05 PM

If I understand everything MJ is saying... Yes Yes Yes

...and even if I don't. Yes

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

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Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 3:36 PM

Agree for sure on study Bibles; that's a user assumption since for example  JSB is sold with Tanakh. But commentaries?

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 8:11 PM

Yes

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 8:22 PM

Denise:

Agree for sure on study Bibles; that's a user assumption since for example  JSB is sold with Tanakh. But commentaries?

As you can see from below it is not sold with it as most study notes are notes only… Some commentaries are definitely based on certain translations. 

Overview

The Jewish Study Bible is a one-volume resource tailored to the needs of students of the Hebrew Bible. Nearly 40 scholars worldwide, representing the best of today’s Jewish biblical scholarship, contributed to the Jewish Study Bible’s translation and interpretation. A committee of highly respected biblical scholars and rabbis from the orthodox, conservative, and Reform Judaism movements produced this modern translation.

No knowledge of Hebrew is required to make use of this unique volume. The Jewish Study Bible uses the Jewish Publication Society TANAKH translation. Since its publication, the Jewish Study Bible has become one of the most popular volumes in Oxford’s celebrated line of bibles.

The Jewish Study Bible is now available in a state-of-the-art digital edition using the power of Logos Bible Software. This is an easy-to-use tool that helps make Bible study more fruitful than ever. The quality of scholarship, easy-to-navigate format, and vibrant supplementary features bring the ancient text to life.

This resource does not include the Bible texts. The TANAKH is available separately and can be purchased here.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 8:43 PM

This should be easy to program, and makes a lot of sense.

 

Yes  Yes  Yes

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 8:51 PM

Dan ... to clarify, I was referring to what you'd see outside Logos .... the  paper version of JSB includes the Tanakh with additional notes. That said, however, Olivetree sells the JSB separately also (which I have).

Forcing a specific translation with more in-depth commentaries is a different issue. I don't see that as viable. KJV vs NRSV vs ESV vs a Vulgate varient?  

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1523
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 8:52 PM

I don't like this idea. If I need to do something like this I use the "Send Hyperlinks Here" option.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 9:02 PM

The idea makes sense.

Some commentators may be making a particular point about the advantage/disadvantage of a particular translation, or they are drawing specific points from a translation. In this case, "forcing" a translation on hover or click (with user option to override) makes a lot of sense.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 9:11 PM

As much as I might appreciate Liberty's comments on various passages, the KJV does me no favors. I like Josh's solution for commentaries. For study-Bibles, it'd be a marketing problem (some come with multiple version choices and then quote appropriately).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 11:01 PM

Denise:

Dan ... to clarify, I was referring to what you'd see outside Logos .... the  paper version of JSB includes the Tanakh with additional notes. That said, however, Olivetree sells the JSB separately also (which I have).

Forcing a specific translation with more in-depth commentaries is a different issue. I don't see that as viable. KJV vs NRSV vs ESV vs a Vulgate varient?  

Sorry for my misunderstanding… I do not see it as a needed thing myself. But if a commentary or a study note asks you to reference a different translation or another verse in a specific translation it would be more convenient to have it do that… I haven't minded opening up and manually switching myself but would agree that it would be nice if Logos was smart enough to do that...

-Dan 

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2013 11:06 PM

Denise:
As much as I might appreciate Liberty's comments on various passages, the KJV does me no favors.

Yes

BTW I see Zondervan has released a new version (same editors, but quality seems less to me)…. At least  Nelson had only renamed it the KJV Parallel commentary….

-dan

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 12:47 AM

Denise:
Forcing a specific translation with more in-depth commentaries is a different issue. I don't see that as viable. KJV vs NRSV vs ESV vs a Vulgate varient?  

I already do so through advanced priorities for those commentaries which state the translatiion they use - primarily true of devotional commentaries or those using some form of reader-response, literary, rhetorical criticism. However, there is a hidden agenda in this request - those commentaries that are using their own translation. One has to use two panes - one for the translation and one for the commentary as it works now. And one can't request the translation in text comparison as one can other translations.

But, yes, the option of using your highest priority Bible does need to be preserved,

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 2:48 AM

MJ. Smith:

With the new study Bibles, I am yet again reminded that on mouse over, they do not display the text being commented  on (rather they show my default Bible)  ... rather I have to go into prioritization and create yet another record in a very long and unmanageable list. PLEASE add the translation on which the notes are based to the metadata and make it the default for mouse over (with the ability to retain current behavior if wanted). Note that this implies that the translation upon which the study bible is based is available in Logos.

Two related requests/peeves:

  • Make commentaries display base text in the same way as requested above for study Bibles
  • Make references within resources that specifically state the translation, display the translation cited e.g. "Gen 1:1" displays my default Bible (currently NRSV) while "Gen 1:1 NIV" displays the NIV regardless of my default

Note this is not a problem with my dead-tree books so it is useability lost in going to Logos editions ...

Yes do like this idea

Posts 2875
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 4:11 AM

Displaying the 'corrupted' version of the Bible that the author used and also displaying the 'one and only correct' version that 'I' prefer will show why that 'study' Bible or commentary is not giving the 'correct interpretation' of the 'original' text.   [but then some authors use every possible version within one book]

I just did a 'GO' on a verse in Revelation.  Got about 100 commentary hits. [mixture of study Bibles and 'normal'commentaries] Knowing what version of the Bible that the author used 'might' have clarified why they gave me conflicting answers.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 7:39 AM

Lee:
This should be easy to program, and makes a lot of sense.

Yes to the second part of your comment, but not the first.

Right now any Bible reference in a text pops-up the default Bible. Making that resource specific would likely require some major reworking of the program and perhaps all the resources (internal, version-specific tagging for each reference?).

What I wonder about as a way to do the same thing without a total rewrite of how Logos works with particular resources (requiring further data tagging for all those resources(?), as well as ???), is to (optionally) pop up the text from a linked Bible. Now this gets complicated when there is more than one Bible linked, and the trapping routine will need to take that into account (highest prioritized linked Bible?). But it wouldn't be too difficult from a user perspective to link a KJV study Bible with the KJV, (e.g.) and get the expected results.

I do agree that when a passage is explicitly cited from a particular translation, that translation should pop up. I believe that this does work as expected in some resources, doesn't it? (I may be off on this, and I don't have any specific resource I'm thinking of that works this way.)

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 8:15 AM

I could be (really, really) wrong, but I thought some resources are already 'hard-coded' to their popups?   But I still think, absent  a study Bible, that the linkage could be dicey on the programming side. Quite a number of my commentaries bounce around on which translation they're illustrating with.  The UBS Handbook quickly comes to mind.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 13420
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 8:17 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
Yes to the second part of your comment, but not the first.

I can see a way of making it reasonably easy to program. All it would need is for users to be able to specify a preferred Bible version for each resource. This could be set on the information panel screen, perhaps (or in the information panel in the library). By default, all resources would be set to (Default Bible). All Logos would need to do would be to check whether that selection had been made, before checking the keylinking.

That said, we can do all this already via advanced prioritisation. I am not convinced that creating an additional feature, that achieves the same purpose is a good idea. It could quickly get confusing, and we'd have to check in two places why things weren't working as expected.

Consequently, I'd rather Logos attacked the underlying problem - that prioritization hasn't scaled well, and needs some attention for power users.

(What's fascinating from my perspective is that I thought L3's keylinking settings far too complicated, and didn't really use them. So I used to love L4's prioritising, which is essentially a simpler version of the same feature. But as time as gone one, I've outgrown prioritization, and would now like something much more similar to L3's version.)

Posts 5430
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 8:33 AM

Mark Barnes:

(What's fascinating from my perspective is that I thought L3's keylinking settings far too complicated, and didn't really use them. So I used to love L4's prioritising, which is essentially a simpler version of the same feature. But as time as gone one, I've outgrown prioritization, and would now like something much more similar to L3's version.)

That settles it...TIME TO BRING L3 BACK TO LIFE!!!

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 8:35 AM

I agree that prioritization is the simplest answer.  Right click and choose the 1st, 2nd, 3rd … (up to 5?).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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