Logos' long term contractual dispute with Moody over John Mac Arthur's materials

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Posts 11
Blain Gibbs | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 8 2014 11:55 AM

I have been a pastor for over 25 years.  I purchased Logos about three years ago, and use it as a primary source for my weekly sermon prep.  At the time of purchase, I was able to buy all of John Mac Arthur's NT commentary series that had been published through Moody at that time which was all of the NT with the exception of Luke and Mark, works which Pastor Mac Arthur had not yet completed.  I then was able to add to my original Logos purchase volume 1 of Luke.  When I tried to purchase volumes 2-3 last December, my Logos agent told me that Logos could no longer provide Mac Arthur NT Commentaries because of a contractual dispute between Logos and Moody.  I then contacted Moody per my agent's advise, but did not receive even a call back from them.  Since I am a customer who has made a considerable financial investment in Logos, I urge Logos should help me. But this problem is not limited to merely me.  I represent thousands of Logos customers who rely on John Mac Arthur's material some of whom I have talked to personally; they have the same frustrations as I!!  I have been told by Grace To You, the company that distributes all of John's writings to my knowledge, that this problem between Logos and Moody is at least two years in duration.  That is too long!  Is there someone at Logos who can help me?  My agent for the last three years with Logos is Santiago Galeano.  He can confirm our relationship as well as our discussions regarding this issue, and he can give the appropriate employee of Logos my personal phone number so that someone can contact me to help me personally, and, moreover, the other many Logos customers mentioned above.  Thank you!

Posts 7061
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 12:24 PM

Sorry Blain, don't mean to burst your bubble, but the truth is: Nobody (Logos or Moody) can help you.  There's absolutely nothing you can do to get McArthur Commentaries or any Moody titles for that matter.  There's nothing any of us can do.  Here are the reasons why:

Read:

1) This http://community.logos.com/forums/p/80108/560524.aspx#560524 

2) This http://community.logos.com/forums/p/70080/487037.aspx#487037 

3) This: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/69039.aspx?PageIndex=1 (This one is 19 pages long) AND

4) This: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/70653/508265.aspx#508265 

The issue has been discussed in great detail, so another post on the Moody topic won't do any good.  The last post (point # 4), though it is about 7 months old, has a little glimpse of hope.  Keep your fingers crossed! Anyway, enough said!

Blessings!

DAL

Ps. Are you trying to get Logos to sell you (under the table) the volumes you are missing? LOL I don't think that's the case, but if so...is not gonna happen.  Which brings us to the question: Did Logos get rid of all the Moody modules once they realized they were not going to be able to sell them anymore? If Moody ever comes back to Logos, will Logos have to re-do all the modules for all the Moody titles they don't sell anymore AND will they put them in prepub again? Ouch! Too many loaded questions, let's just keep our fingers crossed for now! 

Posts 945
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 12:32 PM

There is the option of someone selling you their copies and getting the liscence transferred, but I don't see that happening. I know I had to go on a payment plan to get a bunch of stuff, money I didn't want to spend at the time.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 3:01 PM

Sorry to hear your frustrations Blain but I don't think anything can be done about this. We don't understand all the has gone on behind the scenes between Moody and Logos. I choose to be optimistic that something may be worked out in the future but for now it is what it is.

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Posts 109
Brooks Cochran | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 3:54 PM

Blain: Do a google search or amazon and see if you can find someone that might have what you are looking for in Logos 3 format on a CD (that is if the titles were produced during version 3).

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 6:37 PM

I doubt that anything will ever be worked out between the two companies.

From my estimation, I'm thinking that Moody does not want to be in association with a company that is, how would you say...quite so ecumenical, as it were.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 1069
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 6:39 PM

DAL:

Which brings us to the question: Did Logos get rid of all the Moody modules once they realized they were not going to be able to sell them anymore? If Moody ever comes back to Logos, will Logos have to re-do all the modules for all the Moody titles they don't sell anymore AND will they put them in prepub again? Ouch! Too many loaded questions, let's just keep our fingers crossed for now! 

They couldn't have gotten rid of the modules. If you currently own the MacArthur license and reinstall Logos, they'll download to your new installation. Logos has everything they had before, they just can't sell those resources now.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 6:48 PM

Paul Golder:
From my estimation, I'm thinking that Moody does not want to be in association with a company that is, how would you say...quite so ecumenical, as it were.

That is my uneducated guess.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 7:03 PM

Super.Tramp:

Paul Golder:
From my estimation, I'm thinking that Moody does not want to be in association with a company that is, how would you say...quite so ecumenical, as it were.

That is my uneducated guess.

If being "ecumenical" is the reason, then it's kind of stupid.  Logos is a business, not a church that's embracing "ecumenicalism." Personally, I could care less about some of the "religious" resources Logos sells, but there are others I can learn from.  Just because Logos doesn't sell X products from a specific X religious group doesn't make it an evil or ecumenical or pluralistic company.  It's a business that's all; as if Moody was right in everything they teach or embrace.  Please, don't get me started...LOL

DAL

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 7:45 PM

DAL:
If being "ecumenical" is the reason, then it's kind of stupid.  Logos is a business, not a church that's embracing "ecumenicalism."

Not to get you started but,

Moody is not a business. They have very good reason not to be too closely associated with for-profit endeavors.

I once turned down an employment offer because the contractor had other, un-Christian, ventures. Sometimes we are prisoners of conscience.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 8:03 PM

Vyrso has 778 Moody Press digital ebook's => https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=&Publisher=Moody

Vyrso search for MacArthur finds 34 results => https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=macarthur&start=0&sort=rel&pageSize=45

Searching Logos for MacArthur finds 83 results => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Author=MacArthur%2C+John+F.%2C+Jr.&start=0&sort=bestselling&pageSize=45

Currently not available for use in Logos are:

Luke 6-10: MacArthur New Testament Commentary

Luke 11-17: MacArthur New Testament Commentary

Luke 18-24: MacArthur New Testament Commentary

Noticed ebooks are available for $ 13.49

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 7061
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 8:04 PM

Super.Tramp:

Moody is not a business. They have very good reason not to be too closely associated with for-profit endeavors.

Moody is a business - they publish books and they charge "tuition and fees" to train individuals to preach.  The Bible institute where I attended for 2 full years never charged me (or charge anyone for that matter) a single dime to get trained to preach, yet Moody charges and sells books they publish, that makes it a very profitable business AND on top of that they still ask for donations.  If they're not a business why do they even have a "Payment Plan" option for you to pay them to train you?

Super.Tramp:

I once turned down an employment offer because the contractor had other, un-Christian, ventures. Sometimes we are prisoners of conscience.

While I do not agree with everything Logos does to promote their business or with some of the content they're selling, I still don't see anything wrong with buying from them or publishing with them.  I guess "conscience" is the key word in this whole issue and Moody must have a very, extremely weak conscience to ask Logos to pull most of their content from the Logos website.

Anyway, you shared your opinion, I shared mine.  Don't want to come across as if I'm picking an argument with you or anybody.

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 10770
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 8:16 PM

Looking for MacArthur, I'm reminded of the 'Moody' Blues

I know you're out there somewhere
Somewhere, somewhere
I know I'll find you somehow
And somehow I'll return again to you.

I for one am glad Jesus didn't slide into the ecumenical trap.  Just imagine what might happen if the tax collectors and sinners didn't think like Jesus?

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 8:44 PM

DAL:
I still don't see anything wrong with buying from them or publishing with them.

Me neither. I buy lots & lots of Logos resources (including a bunch of Moody stuff last Spring.)  If I ever were to publish a book I would choose Logos as my publisher.

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Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 8:53 PM

Super.Tramp:

Paul Golder:
From my estimation, I'm thinking that Moody does not want to be in association with a company that is, how would you say...quite so ecumenical, as it were.

That is my uneducated guess.

  • Logos Bible Software Version 5, Silver Package. (This will be used throughout your studies at Moody Theological Seminary).

 Because the software is required for this course, students are able to receive a discount if they order directly from Logos using this website: Student Discount.

http://www.moody.edu/gradbooks/

The above is a quote from the above web page. I would think that separation is the least likely of the reasons for the decision on the part of Logos and Moody in not being partnering to sell Moody books. If it were a separation issue then Logos would not be required for seminary students.

Posts 2837
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 9:16 PM

Super.Tramp:

Paul Golder:
From my estimation, I'm thinking that Moody does not want to be in association with a company that is, how would you say...quite so ecumenical, as it were.

That is my uneducated guess.

I do not think that is the case at all.  I believe it is all about money.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 8 2014 9:21 PM

Wayne:
I would think that separation is the least likely of the reasons

To quote that billionaire on Shark Tank, "It is always about the money."  Surprise

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 9 2014 12:39 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Vyrso has 778 Moody Press digital ebook's => https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=&Publisher=Moody

Vyrso search for MacArthur finds 34 results => https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=macarthur&start=0&sort=rel&pageSize=45

Searching Logos for MacArthur finds 83 results => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Author=MacArthur%2C+John+F.%2C+Jr.&start=0&sort=bestselling&pageSize=45

Currently not available for use in Logos are:

Luke 6-10: MacArthur New Testament Commentary

Luke 11-17: MacArthur New Testament Commentary

Luke 18-24: MacArthur New Testament Commentary

Noticed ebooks are available for $ 13.49

Keep Smiling Smile

Luke 18-24 only available as pre-order.  It is not listed on the MaCarthur Commentaries website.

Blain if you want the two Luke commentaries currently in print, but not in Logos your only option is to buy in electronic format from another provider and make a Logos personal book. This though does mean you can only use them on desktop and not mobile devices at this point in time.  But you will have the electronic copy in other boor at that can be used on a mobile device.

EDIT: Provided it is not DRM which is possibly the case

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 9 2014 5:19 AM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Luke 18-24 only available as pre-order.

The $ 13.49 ebook pre-order on a different web site has 1 Oct 2014 estimated date.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 9 2014 5:24 AM

Super.Tramp:

Paul Golder:
From my estimation, I'm thinking that Moody does not want to be in association with a company that is, how would you say...quite so ecumenical, as it were.

That is my uneducated guess.

If that were the reason, then Moody would be extremely hypocritical to cease dealing with Logos while continuing to use other outlets, such as Amazon and many "Christian" bookstores.

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