Feedback: New Sermons Section in the SSG
In beta 4, a very useful new section was added to the sermon starter guide. It's in the release notes, but I think many of us missed it. It looks like this:
It also works in topic-based Sermon-Starter Guides where it's even more useful. This is on righteousness:
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This is a much needed feature, and I'm delighted it's included. Users like me shouldn't have to create these indexes themselves! My major points of feedback are:
- This needs to be added to the Passage Guide, in addition to the Sermon Starter Guide (currently it's not even available to add manually). Likewise, if possible, the Topic Guide (though I know SSG topics aren't the same as TG topics).
- It needs to be added for all the sermon collections, especially Spurgeon. It would be wonderful if it could also be added to some of the more obscure sermon collections too, in time.
- When this is released, I see this as a major marketing plus. But it needs to be made clear, now and in the future, which resources work with this section, as presumably those resources will need additional markup.
- Although this is a neat feature, I'm slightly concerned that the extra markup isn't using exposed anywhere and it doesn't use standard datatypes. So you can't use the parallel resource menu, for example, to switch to other sermons on the same passage. Nor can you prioritize some sermon collections over others. There's been a trend recently of hiding new markup so it can only be used by new tools. This is a mistake in my opinion, and very frustrating when you know Logos has the data you need, but you're not allowed to construct a search for it (yes, Bible Facts tagging, I'm looking at you).
- Perhaps this already happens (I didn't test it), but our own PB sermons should appear in this section too.
More minor (but still important, in my view) feedback is:
- It would be good to reduce the line-spacing slightly.
- This section is so useful that it should be moved higher up in the Guide.
- The text "articles" should be changed to "sermons".
- Currently the sermons are grouped by resource. IMO it would be better if they were grouped by series, and only grouped by resource if the series is blank. Currently there are three sections for Piper - it would be better if there was one. Likewise, if you ever get to the Treasury of Great Preaching, you don't want ten sections, do you? And you certainly don't want 63 sections for Spurgeon!
- If the number of supported resources grows, we may want to restrict this section to only those resources in a particular collection.
What do the rest of you think?
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I cannot duplicate from the sermon starter guide. Mine is always grayed out. I have Platinum. What passage or topic did you use to trigger this?
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
I have Platinum.
You'll need either the Piper Sermon Collection or the Keller Sermon Collection (or possibly Driscoll, but I don't have that to check).
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Thanks Mark. I do not have either.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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[y]Mark Barnes said:This needs to be added to the Passage Guide, in addition to the Sermon Starter Guide (currently it's not even available to add manually). Likewise, if possible, the Topic Guide (though I know SSG topics aren't the same as TG topics).
Mark Barnes said:You'll need either the Piper Sermon Collection or the Keller Sermon Collection (or possibly Driscoll, but I don't have that to check).
Because I do not use SSG, I did not see this. I am wondering if our sermon PBs appear in this section?
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[Y]
This looks great and I second Mark's suggestions.
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It also needs to be tied to liturgical dates which themselves also need to be added to the PB.
I would suggest that testing with sermons of the early church fathers would be a good proof-of-concept test.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
It also needs to be tied to liturgical dates which themselves also need to be added to the PB.
I would suggest that testing with sermons of the early church fathers would be a good proof-of-concept test.
that would only make sense if the sermons had been preached in conformity with a liturgical calendar. I'm not aware of any Logos sermons resources where that is the case. Or am I missing something?
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Thanks for your feedback, Mark. We're really excited about this new feature and the value it's going to bring to sermon resources.
On your major points:
- It was accidentally excluded from the PG. It should be there in the next beta. It should be in all guides except for the Exegetical Guide and the Bible Word Study.
- We have a master list of all sermon resources, and we're systematically working to add the appropriate tagging to them. All new sermon products will get this tagging automatically.
- We're planning a promotion around this new feature in the next month or two. We plan to clearly identify all the resources with the tagging and specify which ones will get it in the future.
- This is good feedback. We'll consider ways to make this new markup more useful outside of this guide section.
- That seems doable, though you'd need to apply the appropriate markup to the sermons, which we can supply at some point.
On your minor points:
- Agreed.
- Agreed, but we need to consider how many people have any sermon resources.
- I'll pass this along.
- I'll pass this along.
- I'll pass this along.
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Thanks for the feedback Phil. I will certainly be buying more sermon collections from now on — but I will wait for that promotion!
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Mark Barnes said:
- It needs to be added for all the sermon collections, especially Spurgeon. It would be wonderful if it could also be added to some of the more obscure sermon collections too, in time.
e.g. Fresh Sermons (Wilson), Selected Sermons of George Whitefield.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Phil Gons said:
We have a master list of all sermon resources
You'll have a lot of work to do, and we're systematically working to add the appropriate tagging to them! Just in my library, I've counted at least 164 sermon resources that are of type:monograph.
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Mark Barnes said:
Or am I missing something?
Yes you are missing something - Church fathers, Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, Catholic and some miscellaneous ... of which I own only a few
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Lynden Williams said:
Mine is always grayed out.
I tried first with Jesus:Birth which was actively searching but found nothing; subsequent requests it has remained grayed out.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I tried first with Jesus:Birth which was actively searching but found nothing; subsequent requests it has remained grayed out.
Only a small number of resources are supported at the moment.
Back to liturgical calendars, of which I am almost entirely ignorant. Put simply, what benefit is there in the PG or TG to know that sermons on a particular passage or topic were preached at a particular time? Or are you suggesting you'd like to be able to search for all sermons preached on the third Sunday after Epiphany, or whatever it is - because if so, that would need another tool, wouldn't it?
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If you follow the lectionary cycle, I would think that you should at least be able to do a passage search on the traditional text used for each Sunday and find sermons that way.
I could also see a topical guide necessary to find sermons based on the lectionary cycle using the liturgical names for each Sunday such as:
Epiphany; Baptism of the Lord; Maundy Thursday; Pentecost; etc...
I could see linking these works by lectionary tags to be beneficial in my opinion:
Feasting on the Word
Sermons of the early church Fathers
Ancient Christian Commentary Series
Lectionary Reflections for years A, B, and C
The Lectionary Commentary
The ILCW series published by Northwestern Publishing House
Both of these types of additions would be great in my opinion and I think that it would make the software more attractable to those that follow the 3 year lectionary cycle such as myself from time to time.
Just my two cents.
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Mark Barnes said:
that would need another tool, wouldn't it?
Not particularly ... much of the liturgical calendar is topical e.g. Easter, Christmas, Epiphany, Baptism of the Lord, Ascension, Annunciation, Raising of Lazarus, Woman at the Well (Orthodox naming of Sundays stresses the topical nature). The remainder is selection by passage - the difference being that the passages are fixed pericopes and they come in sets. In the PG we get the liturgical information from the Lectionary section which provides information on the common uses/context and by implication the import of the passage. To be able to use liturgical date as a topic simply permits the natural classification of the liturgical churches to be used.
I'm not suggesting a full historical cross-denominational implementation of liturgical date ... merely an obvious first step that corresponds to that used by common web sermon sites.
Mark Barnes said:Put simply, what benefit is there in the PG or TG to know that sermons on a particular passage or topic were preached at a particular time?
Using the same passage, a different emphasis will be brought out in a funeral service than in a baptismal service; In the same way, in the liturgical year, different emphasis will be brought out on the Feast of John the Baptists than on the First Sunday of Advent. The information provides a quick overview, in effect. Similarly the juxtaposition of texts provided by the set of readings for the day influences the aspects that will be emphasized.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Barnes said:
The text "articles" should be changed to "sermons".
This should be fixed in 5.2a Beta 6
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Mark Barnes said:
Currently the sermons are grouped by resource. IMO it would be better if they were grouped by series, and only grouped by resource if the series is blank. Currently there are three sections for Piper - it would be better if there was one. Likewise, if you ever get to the Treasury of Great Preaching, you don't want ten sections, do you? And you certainly don't want 63 sections for Spurgeon!
Sermons are now grouped by series in 5.2a SR-3.
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Dave Hooton said:
e.g. Fresh Sermons (Wilson), Selected Sermons of George Whitefield.
Whitfield shows up in mine with this update.
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William said:Dave Hooton said:
e.g. Fresh Sermons (Wilson), Selected Sermons of George Whitefield.
Whitfield shows up in mine with this update.
The recent updates of Sermon resources made this possible as they needed to be tagged by Logos.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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This is a great new feature. It actually led me to purchase another collection of sermons since it's much more usable now than before. I do wish my properly formatted PBB sermons would appear in this section too. They are in their own collection right above this so it isn't a big deal - easy enough to include them in a guide - but it would be a nice touch.
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I did some playing around and these 8 sermon series seem to be tagged so far (this was a search of John 3:16):
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Don Awalt said:
I did some playing around and these 8 sermon series seem to be tagged so far (this was a search of John 3:16):
I created a custom PG, with just a Sermons section on Genesis-Revelation, and found:
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Ah good idea! I didn't think to try Gen-Rev. I see the same 18 series.
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Mark Barnes said:
Mark, how did you set up your section on sermons? Do you have a specific collection on sermons (and if so, how is it established)? I have a collection entitled Sermons with the rule: mytag:sermon. I know that Logos has tagged many sermons, but I don't seem to find sermons by author/series like you have. Thanks
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Bill Shewmaker said:
Mark, how did you set up your section on sermons?
It's all automatic now. Now need for collections - just look for the new Sermons section in the Passage Guide or Sermon Starter Guide.
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Mark Barnes said:Bill Shewmaker said:
Mark, how did you set up your section on sermons?
It's all automatic now. Now need for collections - just look for the new Sermons section in the Passage Guide or Sermon Starter Guide.
Not sure why mine only gives me a total of 6 sermons...and I have several books of sermons and even some PBBs of sermons. That is why I was asking...are they catalogued by Bible book (i.e., Genesis, Exodus, etc.)? I just ran the John 3:16 Sermon Starter Guide and got a grand total of 6 sermons. I don't have any of Piper's sermons, but one would think that there are more than 6 sermons on John 3:16.
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Books have to be specifically tagged to appear in this section. As far as we know, only the books in the screenshot above have been tagged.
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Mark Barnes said:
Books have to be specifically tagged to appear in this section. As far as we know, only the books in the screenshot above have been tagged.
Thanks Mark...looks like in "need" to buy some more resources
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Bill Shewmaker said:
Thanks Mark...looks like in "need" to buy some more resources
The number of compatible resources is growing fairly rapidly at the moment, so hopefully more sermons in your library will appear in that section soon. They seem to be focussing on sermon resources that are of type:monograph – but there are a LOT of these. A quick estimate of my own library shows more than 300, and I can't have all of them.
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Mark Barnes said:
Books have to be specifically tagged to appear in this section. As far as we know, only the books in the screenshot above have been tagged.
Logos shipped updates to a number of sermon resources today (my download was over 140MB and I normally don't focus on collecting sermons, so everybody's mileage may vary considerably), thus I think the list just grew by a large number.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
I think the list just grew by a large number
Well spotted. I posted a revised list here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/85216.aspx
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John Eggen said:
I do wish my properly formatted PBB sermons would appear in this section too.
Starting in 6.12 Beta 1, they will. If you use the sermon metadata table (https://wiki.logos.com/Sermon_and_Illustration_Support), the necessary {Sermon} label will be generated automatically. (You will need to recompile your sermon resources at least once to use the new personal book compiler.)
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In 6.12 {Sermon} label will be generated automatically allowing it to show up in the Sermons guide section and in other searches for sermons.
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