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This post has 41 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 243
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Mar 13 2014 6:36 PM

This is completely unacceptable.  No activity on this forum for well over a month, while the other 'theological-specific" forums continue to have robust activity.  I just don't get it.  Something just isn't adding up.  I know plenty of Pentecostal ministers (like myself) that love bible-software like Logos, so why there seems to be a disconnect between users and Logos just leaves me scratching my head.  I will admit I feel like Logos is more "Reformed" friendly above any other theological stream they offer, by a wide margin, yet I'd still think there would be more interaction in this thread.  It's really quite unfortunate, as I feel Logos needs to do some serious work to catch up to rival bible software companies that offer better Pentecostal material overall.  There are some basic Charismatic/Arminian works that Logos inexplicably doesn't offer.  That needs to change if they really want to become more Pentecostal-friendly.

Hope we see some positive changes going forward.

Posts 701
ChelseaFC | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 6:56 PM
It does seem like logos is slowly bringing more products in. Cindy Jacobs is coming out or has come out recently. I agree with you in that they could improve but I imagine that these things take time. Sorry you are frustrated. ChelseaFC

Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 6:56 PM

Gary Osborne:
No activity on this forum for well over a month,

Hi Gary,

I understand your concern over this issue. I just wanted to point out; a month is a very short time in the normal timing of product development. I bet there are a lot of Pentecostal resources in the pipeline. Are you aware there are already quite a few in Logos? Would you care to share your wishlist?

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 796
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Gabe Martini (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 7:03 PM

Hi Gary,

We are currently working to hire a full-time Pentecostal/Charismatic Product Manager, who can devote 100% of their time to those efforts.

As soon as that occurs, you will notice a significant increase in activity both on the forums and on our Pre-pub and Community Pricing pages. We want experts in each area to manage those resources, and so any lull is due to waiting to get the best person on board to take the reins.

Thank you for being patient!

Product Department Manager
Faithlife

Posts 6473
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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 7:13 PM

Gabe Martini:
We are currently working to hire a full-time Pentecostal/Charismatic Product Manager, who can devote 100% of their time

to those efforts.

Gary, have you considered applying for the job?

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 243
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 7:21 PM

I'd love the job, but I'm a full time Pastor at a church on the other side of the continent (Florida) so it doesn't seem likely.  But I'd sure love to be involved in trying to get some more resources from organizations and denominations like The Assemblies of God (as one example).  They have so much they could contribute.

Am I to take from your comment, Gabe, that Rich Tatum is no longer serving as the guy for Pentecostal/Charismatic resources?

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 7:40 PM

Gary Osborne:
Am I to take from your comment, Gabe, that Rich Tatum is no longer serving as the guy for Pentecostal/Charismatic resources?

http://www.linkedin.com/in/richtatum 

Logos Bible Software
April 2013 – January 2014 (10 months) Bellingham, Washington Area

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 7:42 PM

I too look forward to more Arminian/Charismatic works.

Posts 1818
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 13 2014 10:33 PM

This should be or (considered) to be included in the charismatic package..

Berean

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 14 2014 11:23 AM

Gary Osborne:
denominations like The Assemblies of God

Pathway Press is the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) publisher and I'd love to see some of their stuff as I'm part of that denomination!

http://www.pathwaypress.org/

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 14 2014 7:19 PM

Graham Owen:
Church of God

Are these resources from your denomination and are you aware of them?:

There are some really good things in these collections.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 1:46 PM

Gabe Martini:

Hi Gary,

We are currently working to hire a full-time Pentecostal/Charismatic Product Manager, who can devote 100% of their time to those efforts.

As soon as that occurs, you will notice a significant increase in activity both on the forums and on our Pre-pub and Community Pricing pages. We want experts in each area to manage those resources, and so any lull is due to waiting to get the best person on board to take the reins.

Thank you for being patient!

That's great news Gabe, thank you for informing us. On the other hand it seems to me that it is quiet on both sides. If we can suggest more titles and authors, Logos has proved to listen to that in many cases already.

Bohuslav

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 17 2014 2:19 PM

I was looking for some books on Azusa Street the other day, surprised the Bartleman and Seymour material not anywhere in Logos. Aren't they PD?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_5?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=azusa%20street 

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 1:53 AM

Super.Tramp:

Agree that these are good resources but they are Anderson, Indiana and not Cleveland, Tennessee.

The AOG training materials are also goo and are similar to the ones that we use in Church of God in terms of approach.An example is:

https://www.logos.com/product/8475/assemblies-of-god-history-missions-and-governance-bsb-level-1

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 4:02 AM
I am not disagreeing with OP, but even though Im a pentecostal, Im not that interested in most of what is produced by pentecostals...there would be some Id buy, but unless the scholarship is of Fee's standard, why bother? Surely the popular stuff would be better suited to Vyrso. Well, Im strictly talking about my tastes and my purpose in investing heavily in a bible study program like L5.
Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:26 AM

Is Mebin:
I am not disagreeing with OP, but even though Im a pentecostal, Im not that interested in most of what is produced by pentecostals...there would be some Id buy, but unless the scholarship is of Fee's standard, why bother? Surely the popular stuff would be better suited to Vyrso. Well, Im strictly talking about my tastes and my purpose in investing heavily in a bible study program like L5.

As I recall, there was a thread last year sometime that expressed a similar feeling. The result of the thread was two fold as I recall: 1. that the Pentecostals are pretty splintered in terms of what they want; once splintered they were few enough in number to make getting books through pre-pub and community pricing tricky (though not impossible). 2. A number of pentecostal folks expressed a dissatisfaction with much of the "scholarship" in the field believing it to be less than scholarly.

I think this thread bears out similar positions.

For me - I would argue that I agree with about half or maybe a 5/8s of the titles in my library. Reading material that contrasts my own view helps me to stay sharp. Sometimes - rarely - I find a position that I have previously dismissed out of hand actually makes more sense (arguing from scripture) than does the position I had previously held.

So my best advice is jump into the base packages, read views that contrast your own, and be the better for it.

Heretics sometimes ask the most interesting questions...

As to being more reformed friendly (and having one foot in that camp, and one foot out), I think it just appears that way because they hired a Reformed product manager pretty early on in the "lets hire product managers" process, and he has been very responsive and effective at getting books into Logos that we care about. That said, they just now got the Westminster confession into Logos... Something that if they were overly friendly towards the reformed camp, would have been here a long time ago. By and large, if you look at the denominational break down of the books in Logos, and indeed in my own library, "evangelical" titles are far more common than any other group.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 243
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 7:48 AM

Two things I'll point out:

1) There's no doubt in my mind that Logos suffers from a lack of standard, well known Arminian/Pentecostal works.  This is in stark contrast to the material they offer from Calvinistic/Reformed streams of thought.  Here are three of the big name benchmark works offered by other bible software companies that Logos doesn't carry right now:

Adam Clarke's Commentary

Full Life Study Bible (aka Fire Bible)

Full Life Commentary on the New Testament

For the life of me I can't understand why Logos doesn't have all three of these available - right now.  Can you imagine how Reformed folks would feel if Logos didn't have Calvin's Commentaries at this point in the game?  Or the works of Spurgeon?  We'd all say that would be "insane", yet this is what's happening on our side of the theological fence right now.  Some standard works are not available, and it just boggles my mind.

2) I agree that there will probably never be as many scholarly works in Pentecostal theology as Reformed, or Baptist, etc.  But don't think there isn't a lot of material out there to be mined, so to speak.  There is.  And much of it is more scholarly than you might think.  There are several periodicals, like the Pneuma Review and Paraclete that are fabulous resources that would benefit everyone in Logos.  And there are many books and papers that would greatly enhance the Pentecostal section in Logos.  So don't think there isn't material available.  There is.  We just need Logos to take more of an interest.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 8:00 AM

Firstly, I didn't intend to put you on the defensive regarding the scholarly nature of pentacostal works. I was just reporting back what other pentacostals had said regarding the subject.

Secondly, the full life study bible and Spurgeon (for instance) are not 1:1 analogs of each other. IE you're comparing apples and oranges. Spurgeon who was baptist, and reformed has cross category interest and thus a wider interest base - the same with Calvin. Comparing the two is sort of like saying the fire bible is as important across the spectrum of Christianity as was the works instrumental in the reformation.

Maybe in 200 years, that may be true of the fire bible, but for now its influence and readership is limited.

Logos is in the end, a business. Things of historical, theological or curiosity value across the spectrum of theological traditions are what we have now; the more specialized writings (Westminster standards for instance - which was instrumental in the formation of the southern baptist convention fwiw which has some 16 million potential customers; and so still not a 1:1 analog) even for the reformed camp are slow in coming.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 243
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 8:14 AM

No worries about me being on the "defensive" with the comments about Pentecostal scholarship.  I understood the point and actually do agree in terms of sheer volume.  No doubt about it.  There's far less to pick from. 

I also see your point about Calvin/Spurgeon and the Fire Bible.  And in the context you've set you are absolutely correct.  All I was doing is pointing out that there are some standard, important Pentecostal works that are offered by rival bible software companies that aren't offered in Logos.  That was really my only point.  Especially as it regards Clarke's Commentary.  That one is Arminian/Wesleyan as opposed to Pentecostal, but many Pentecostals consider it a valuable asset in their library.  Surely even you would admit the omission of that work is glaring.  Yes?

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 18 2014 8:22 AM

I would even stipulate to its beneficial nature, and to having used it in the past.

However, its also in the progress of becoming a part of Logos.

However at 4$ a volume I am not in. My bid is far lower. It remains to be seen if the price will drop towards the end. If so it will likely become a part of my library. If not, then I suppose not.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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