Liturgy of the Hours anyone?

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Apr 15 2014 4:10 PM

I know there are a lot of clergy users, the Roman Breviary is available in  Logos. Can we get this over the top?

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 15 2014 5:07 PM

I've been in since last June.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 15 2014 5:10 PM

I have it pre ordered but don't look like it is very popular.

-Dan

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 3:03 AM

I suspect this is a major problem:

I'm no expert, but I think that means that those who are obligated to pray it can't use this edition for that, only for searches and study and so on. 

Which is where I am as well, as I don't do my praying in English. 

Thus I prefer to wait, as I take for granted this will one day be included in Verbum for a fraction of the price.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 3:34 AM

fgh:
I think that means that those who are obligated to pray it can't use this edition

I took it to mean that it was like a study Bible or lectionary where you supply the translation of Scripture and Psalm that is applicable in your diocese.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 4:20 AM

So did I, but I think we've had priests and deacons here saying that that isn't enough. Logos can't handle half verses, for example, or replace an initial pronoun with a name to make it intelligible. The current lectionary also has severe problems with antiphons, but I think Louis or someone said that that wasn't going to be an issue in this one.

And then there are those dioceses who use an adapted Bible translation. To the best of my knowledge, the Swedish Catholic translation only exists in liturgical books. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 10:13 AM

Even if the texts/Bible translations were identical it is still not ok to use them for prayer. The vatican has stated electronic versions of books are not permissible. The Universalis App has the correct translations and it is state priest and religious are not allowed b the vatican to see the fulfilment of their obligation if using them. Also Priests in Australia were using their iPads for liturgy and were told that it wasn't acceptable. 

-Dan

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 10:35 AM

Dan Francis:
The vatican has stated electronic versions of books are not permissible

Do you have a source? In Mass, yes. I have never seen anything from the Vatican stating a mobile device could not be used to pray the Liturgy of the Hours.  This article quotes a Vatican official even referring to that while making the point that using one in Mass is not approved. This is implied in this article, but there are no Gospels in the Liturgy of the Hours. What is permissible/prohibited in Mass is much different than anything else.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/priest-says-ipads-tablets-no-substitute-for-missalettes

So if you have a source that indicates otherwise, please share.

Dan Francis:
The Universalis App has the correct translations

Well it depends on where you live. Universalis has the non-ICEL translation common to the British Isles and Australia, so it's not much use in the United States.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 1:28 PM

fgh:
So did I, but I think we've had priests and deacons here saying that that isn't enough. Logos can't handle half verses, for example, or replace an initial pronoun with a name to make it intelligible.

Ah yes, you are right that it would be difficult to use for all the same reasons that the "lectionary" isn't really a lectionary.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 2:36 PM

I know universals use to have a disclaimer I can no longer find http://catholicexchange.com/new-zealand-bishops-ipad-missals-and-breviary-apps also mentions at least one Breviary app has been approved. But for the deficits listed above it is not likely Logos would be officially approved. Also by the time Logos gets their version out perhaps the update will have been released.

-Dan 

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 4:21 PM

Dan Francis:

I know universals use to have a disclaimer I can no longer find http://catholicexchange.com/new-zealand-bishops-ipad-missals-and-breviary-apps also mentions at least one Breviary app has been approved. But for the deficits listed above it is not likely Logos would be officially approved. Also by the time Logos gets their version out perhaps the update will have been released.

-Dan 

That article mentions forbidding electronics for Mass and Missal, of which the breviary is neither. The fact the Vatican has approved one, what does that mean? They have not forbidden others. It is a valid point though, the text of the scripture in the breviary is copyright is a modified version that does not match any bible translation. But, it is not forbidden to use electronic versions, hence a gray area exists.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 16 2014 5:15 PM

Don Awalt:
But, it is not forbidden to use electronic versions, hence a gray area exists.

Yes and i meant to imply it was no longer a case due to the fact there is an approved version... I can not find it but I did see it released by at least a bishop, that using the electronic version was not an acceptable option. Also I did have a Priest friend  (he left in the 80s) who was using an unofficial version of the daily office, the one volume version that briefly was for sale by St. John's Abby. I remember him telling me he was told by the woman at the store he bought it at, it was not suitable for a priest and would not fulfil his obligation to pray the office.

-Dan

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 17 2014 2:17 AM

Dan Francis:
I did see it released by at least a bishop, that using the electronic version was not an acceptable option.

There is a huge difference between "clergy aren't allowed to pray the office from the xyz-app (because it uses an unapproved translation)", and "clergy aren't allowed to pray the office from the xyz-app (because it's electronic)". The first I believe to be true in most cases; the latter I believe to be false.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 17 2014 3:56 AM

fgh:

Dan Francis:
I did see it released by at least a bishop, that using the electronic version was not an acceptable option.

There is a huge difference between "clergy aren't allowed to pray the office from the xyz-app (because it uses an unapproved translation)", and "clergy aren't allowed to pray the office from the xyz-app (because it's electronic)". The first I believe to be true in most cases; the latter I believe to be false.

There is also a huge difference between a bishop saying for his diocese that clergy aren't allowed to do something, and the Vatican saying it. 

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 22 2014 7:22 AM

Catholic clergy are ordinarily allowed to use electronic versions of the breviary. A very rapidly growing number of them - probably not quite a majority yet - do so some/all of the time, at least in Canada and the USA. Usually clergy use the iBreviary app, which happens to be free these days because it became an overwhelming bestseller years ago, back when it had fewer features and a real price tag.

There is no 'Vatican prohibition' on electronic breviaries whatsoever. In fact, the Italian parish priest (Fr. Paolo Padrini) who created iBreviary was, shortly after iBreviary came out, publicly praised by the Pontifical Council for Social Communications precisely because of his work on iBreviary.

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