Restoration Movement Base Package

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 11:11 AM

Levi Sisemore:
I get the feel that they don't quite understand the idea of granting a license to use their material through Logos.

It sounds like they don't understand that FL would pay them royalties.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 11:13 AM

I had a significantly higher number for SDA Membership in US "18,479,257"

Levi Sisemore:

SDA

1,060,386

Seventh-day Adventist Church

1,060,386

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 11:25 AM

SineNomine:

Levi Sisemore:
I get the feel that they don't quite understand the idea of granting a license to use their material through Logos.

It sounds like they don't understand that FL would pay them royalties.

Both responses suggest a certain lack of familiarity with how electronic publishing works.  Perhaps that's not surprising, since neither group is a traditional publisher. 

Posts 13
Levi Sisemore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:01 PM

James Taylor,

According to www.adventist.org/world-church/north-american/ there are 1,100,000 Seventh Day Adventist members in all of North America. They cite 18,028,796 for worldwide membership (http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/adventist-church-membership-passes-18-million-member-mark).

I did not do much additional research on these numbers, nor did I add any numbers from outside the United States. I'm sure Logos has users in other countries besides the United States (but I wonder: are all licenses available in non-US locations?), but I'd wager that the lion's share of their users are here (English language and finances both being major considerations). 

Posts 13
Levi Sisemore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:07 PM

SineNomine,

You're right from a numbers stand-point. There's not currently a Base Package for Wesleyan/Methodist viewpoints. I saw that Logos had a whole selection of resources tagged as belonging to that tradition (https://www.logos.com/products/search?Christian+Group=Methodist%2fWesleyan) and assumed that they had a Base Package for them, too.

I guess they call these groups of similar faith traditions "Christian Groups"...

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:07 PM

Levi Sisemore:
According to www.adventist.org/world-church/north-american/ there are 1,100,000 Seventh Day Adventist members in all of North America. They cite 18,028,796 for worldwide membership (http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/adventist-church-membership-passes-18-million-member-mark).

My mistake, I googled SDA members in US and thats where I saw that number, I was definitely shocked by the number of them, and now that makes sense.

But that certainly underscores the situation even more, there are 12 times as many Methodists as SDAs and somehow the SDA has a package long before.  Mysterious to say the least.

Thanks

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Mark Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:45 PM

I had the editor of RQ do a seminar and while I was either bringing him from airport or to the airport, I asked him about RQ on Logos. He does not see any value there. If someone is going to or a graduate of an accredited graduate theological institution, then that person should have free access to RQ. Thus, he does not sense there being much demand for purchasing RQ.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:48 PM

Mark Johnson:

I had the editor of RQ do a seminar and while I was either bringing him from airport or to the airport, I asked him about RQ on Logos. He does not see any value there. If someone is going to or a graduate of an accredited graduate theological institution, then that person should have free access to RQ. Thus, he does not sense there being much demand for purchasing RQ.

Sounds like someone should enlighten the editor.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:49 PM

By this logical, Catholics should have been the first to have a package. Smile But it's not that simple:

  1. If a theological stream has their own software whether officially or via a publisher it is harder to get cooperation from the publishers and harder to build a market.
  2. If a denomination has a single, or very few publishers, if that publisher is anxious to work with you, it is easy to build a market up quickly.
  3. If a theological stream has publishers who won't "play nice" with each other (I won't license mine to be in a package with theirs), it is difficult to build up marketable packages.
  4. If a theological stream is divided into many little rivulets and the market is fiercely loyal to their own rivulet, it is difficult to build packages of reasonable size that won't contain too much "offensive" or useless material.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 12:52 PM

Levi Sisemore:
I wrote to the Getwell Church of Christ who publishes The Spiritual Sword quarterly. This was their reply.

Try contacting Alan Highers directly. He attends elsewhere, but as I'm sure you know he is the editor. I spoke with him some months ago. He seemed open to the idea but I never got anything to come from it. Maybe more people contacting him will increase the odds of getting Spiritual Sword onboard with Logos.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 19 2015 1:41 PM

MJ. Smith:

  1. If a theological stream has their own software whether officially or via a publisher it is harder to get cooperation from the publishers and harder to build a market.
  2. If a denomination has a single, or very fewer publishers, if that publisher is anxious to work with you, it is easy to build a market up quickly.
  3. If a theological stream has publishers who won't "play nice" with each other (I won't license mine to be in a package with theirs), it is difficult to build up marketable packages.
  4. If a theological stream is divided into many little rivulets and the market is fiercely loyal to their own rivulet, it is difficult to build packages of reasonable size that won't contain too much "offensive" or useless material.

thanks for bringing us back down from our illogical hot air balloon. we were just about to float away 

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Levi Sisemore | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 7:04 AM

I've emailed him (Highers) in the past. I didn't receive a reply. When I have more time, I might try again. I can only afford to spend so much time doing - what I see as - other people's work for them.

If a publisher doesn't want a wider market for his book, I don't understand.

If a preacher doesn't want the ear of more people for his message, I don't understand.

It shouldn't be this hard in 2015 (nearly 2016!) to see digital publishing as an established phenomenon, rather than a fad or trend.

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 20 2015 7:26 AM

Levi, I should have opportunity within the next few weeks to talk to him again. Perhaps the material from Warren and Elkins being made available in Logos will help. I don't think Logos is viewed as a fad or trend. I think the barriers that need to be overcome are a lack of familiarity with Logos and a hesitancy to cease being the sole distributor of the material. That is in no way a critique or reflection on him or the Getwell congregation, but rather my opinion on why so few publishers that could potentially make their works available for a Restoration Movement base package have failed to do so.

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 1:32 PM

Just reporting back with an update after my previous post. I did have a chance to speak with Alan Highers, editor of the Spiritual Sword. The takeaway from the conversation was this:

1. He seemed to be agreeable to the idea of getting the Spiritual Sword available in Logos.

2. He said it is not his decision to make.

3. He said our best bet would be to mail a letter to the elders of the Getwell congregation.

Maybe if several people do this we can make this happen.

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Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 2:11 PM

Is it possible that an issue with a restoration base package is that it seems to be entirely a USA based denomination, as such it does have a very limited appeal. 

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 2:23 PM

Mike Pettit:

Is it possible that an issue with a restoration base package is that it seems to be entirely a USA based denomination, as such it does have a very limited appeal. 

The primary roots of the Restoration Movement were in the U.S., but all of the major branches of this movement have had significant foreign mission efforts going back to the late 19th century.  There are a significant number of non-US congregations with connections to the movement. Remember, even in the U.S., most congregations won't have "Restoration Movement" on the sign in front of their building - it will say something like "Christian Church," Church of Christ," "Independent Christian Church" or "Disciples of Christ."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 2:30 PM

Mike Pettit:

Is it possible that an issue with a restoration base package is that it seems to be entirely a USA based denomination, as such it does have a very limited appeal. 

I think Australia has a significant number of congregations.

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Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 2:44 PM

Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 3:57 PM

Mike Pettit:

Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something.

My father, a long time elder and son/grandnephew of ministers in the Church of Christ, also saw the Brethren as theologically similar. To me the major difference is the influence of Scottish enlightenment on the Stone-Campbell movement vs. the pietist influence on the Brethren which leads to quite different means to similar conclusions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 1 2015 5:10 PM

MJ. Smith:

Mike Pettit:

Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something.

My father, a long time elder and son/grandnephew of ministers in the Church of Christ, also saw the Brethren as theologically similar. To me the major difference is the influence of Scottish enlightenment on the Stone-Campbell movement vs. the pietist influence on the Brethren which leads to quite different means to similar conclusions.

It seems to me that there are two things that gave the Restoration Movement it's particular character.

  1. The influence, as M.J. said, of the Scottish Enlightenment. It shaped the way the movement interprets the Bible and how it thinks theologically;
  2. It's origin on the U.S. frontier during the Second Great Awakening. This has shaped the culture in a number of ways.  For example, the use of lay preachers rather than seminary-trained clergy, the popularity well past the mid-20th century of tent revivals, and a distrust of intellectualism pursued for its own sake. As our society has changed, all of the major branches of the Restoration Movement have become more urban, and as the average member has become more educated congregations have also looked for more highly educated ministers. But in many congregations you can still feel the populists roots of the frontier Awakening.
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