BUG: NIDB and Topic Guide

Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
This post has 12 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 568
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 18 2014 1:04 AM

So, I am very happy that we FINALLY have The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible. I also just love the Topic Guide and being able to customize guides and create new guides. However, I did note what appears to be a bug: The NIDB does NOT show up under "Topic" in the Topic Guide. In fact, a few of my bible dictionaries are missing completely from the topic guide. I have even checked to see if they have articles that corresponds to the topic (I used "moses" and "abraham" since most, if not all, bible dictionaries and bible encyclopedias should have an article on them). I noticed that a few of my bible dictionaries and bible encyclopedias do not show up under "Topic" in the Topic Guide as well as the NIDB. Should that be considered a bug? Even brand new dictionaries (that came into Logos after Logos 5 was released) do not show up in the Topic Guide. I did add "Collections" and used the collections I had created: one for Bible Dictionaries, one for Journals (since sometimes journal articles might have a topic or article on what I am searching for) and one for Monographs (so I don't have to search All Resources searched, when some of them have already been searched. Redundancy is not helpful).

I also noticed an obvious bug in Topic Guide: after adding "Collections" I can click on Settings, but it does not populate ANYTHING. The arrow changes, but NO drop down list of any sort, so I can change which collection I want to select. I have restarted Logos four times within a two-hour period, and no changes.

Plus, I do not feel I should have to add "Collections: Bible Dictionaries" to add all the rest of the encyclopedias and bible dictionaries that are not listed under "Topic." So I think Logos needs to change how the "Topic" section works.

Logos 8.7.0.0042 + Faithlife Connect | macOS Mojave 10.14.6 | Mid 2015 Macbook Pro 15" | 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1 TB SSD PCIe Express

Posts 25045
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 1:59 AM

The TOPIC section uses resources of type:encyclopedia or type:concordance provided they are specially encoded with "Logos Controlled Vocabulary" topic names and that you have the LCV dataset (which comes with Logos 4/5 base packages). New resources are not necessarily encoded for LCV e.g. the ISBE (1915) from Ages Software is LCV but the newer Logos edition is not!

However,  non-LCV resources will appear in the COLLECTIONS section (provided they have articles on the topic). Note that this section is more relaxed about the resource types; including monograph, dictionary, thesaurus.

Caleb S.:
I can click on Settings, but it does not populate ANYTHING.

This seems odd as you clearly have three collections in the screen shot. Perhaps the template is damaged, so construct a new one and see if that is different.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 221
André Kamphuis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 3:04 AM

Dave Hooton:
The TOPIC section uses resources of type:encyclopedia or type:concordance provided they are specially encoded with "Logos Controlled Vocabulary" topic names and that you have the LCV dataset (which comes with Logos 4/5 base packages).

I would be interested to hear from Logos why a Bible Dictionary like NIDB has not been encoded with LCV.

Without this encoding, finding relevant information is a lot harder. I tried to search on "suffering" and see how easily I could find the relevant sections in the NIDB (and similar resources, since I usually don't want to open up each individual resource). It was less easy than I expected. In the search field, I needed to select "Heading Text" and "Large Text" to get the results I wanted, otherwise I would get too much or too less. 

The Topic Guide does such an excellent job making searches like this easier!

I am looking forward to hearing more about how decisions are made to encode new published resources for LCV or not, especially for this new resource. 

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 8:49 AM

I would guess this is a case of growing pains (getting a resource out faster verses having it fully polished ). But it would be nice to hear from Logos as to when this oversight will be corrected.

-Dan

Posts 6489
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 8:59 AM

Total disappointment! I even prioritized the NIDB to show right after my AYBD and still no results on the topic guide - not even on the Biblical People feature! Going over this new dictionary and is not as good as I thought it would be, but you would still expect it to yield results on the Topic Guide and Biblical People, places and things.  IMHO, AYBD is still the best Bible Dictionary, but to limit this new dictionary (NIBD) and not be able to yield results? That's not very good.  Might as well sell it on Vyrso and cheaper instead of selling it at a higher price than AYBD and be useless when it comes to it yielding results on the Topic Guide and other features of the program.  When doing searches, I could even forget I own the NIBD since it will never yield results.

The only place where it kind of works is when you build a collection and search that collection alone.  But...when I tried searching for "Moses" it gave me a bunch of hits starting with Aaron, but no specific article on Moses, I have to go to the NIDB and type his name to actually get the result I want! I would've expected (as others would) better tagging and quality for this much anticipated resource.

I just hope the New Interpreters Bible commentary is actually tagged as a "Commentary" or else it might not show up on the Passage Guide either. Sad Tongue Tied

DAL

Posts 8060
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 11:27 AM

André Kamphuis:
I would be interested to hear from Logos why a Bible Dictionary like NIDB has not been encoded with LCV.

It was a choice between

  1. Shipping the resource now (without LCV) then updating it later (with LCV).
  2. Waiting until LCV tagging was done and shipping it then.

Since there is still a lot of value in the resource (without LCV), we chose to ship it now so you could use it today. Adding LCV tagging to this resource is high on our priority list, but I don't know when it will be completed.

Posts 1011
LogosEmployee
Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 12:07 PM

Our strong desire is to make sure resources are complete when we ship them. We’ve been retooling our processes for adding topic information (the LCV), and consequently some resources (like NIDB) that have been underway for a while aren’t complete. We understand people’s disappointment when a new resource is not yet fully functional in Logos. Rest assured that integration with the Topic Guide (which will also integrate with Bible Facts) is coming soon. At this point I don't have a date but the ball is rolling. I'll do my best to pass it along when I have some concrete dates.

Posts 26847
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 1:32 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
Since there is still a lot of value in the resource (without LCV), we chose to ship it now so you could use it today.

I believe that you ought to publicize prominently when you choose to release an unfinished product. Otherwise to the user, it looks like a Logos error that gets fixed after there are complaints. The tagging is what we pay premium prices for and what you market so it is reasonable to expect it.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 1:42 PM

I'm glad it shipped yesterday. I needed it this weekend or Monday at the latest, and will be using it in seminary too. Thank You, good choice to ship it sooner!

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 6,200own
12G A9-9420 V8.6 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 25045
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 3:48 PM

DAL:
When doing searches, I could even forget I own the NIBD since it will never yield results.

If that is the case it would also be true for any "bible dictionary" or dictionary (MW, Collins,etc)! But I'm sure you know how get a definition from Collins or an article from AYBD...

DAL:
The only place where it kind of works is when you build a collection and search that collection alone...

For the time being putting that collection in the Collections section of Topic Guide is the only way. I have the same frustration with ISBE 1915 (Logos edition).

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 10234
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 4:55 PM

Wow.  That's amazing. The company that can't communicate, can't.  They knew?

(I refunded the puppy I had in this fight.)

But to illustrate (just to illustrate):  An annual Kindle subscription will run $120.   And $30 to spare (if I remember right).

Actually I'm more worried about NA28 apparatus. I wonder if it'll include the popups?  Or maybe you just have to guess what'll be missing.

'We'll make it a priority.'   Like NA28 apparatus?


Posts 476
elnwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 18 2014 10:51 PM

I just opened up the NIDB for the first time, and on the very first page I noticed a major typo: "ABIGDON PRESS." (Yes, I reported it). I hope this isn't a sign of how many typos the rest of the book has!

Posts 221
André Kamphuis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 19 2014 12:45 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
Since there is still a lot of value in the resource (without LCV), we chose to ship it now so you could use it today. Adding LCV tagging to this resource is high on our priority list, but I don't know when it will be completed.

Thanks Bradley and Kyle for this information! That makes sense, and I am glad to hear that this tagging is coming. 

I fully agree with M.J. Smith's advice though:

MJ. Smith:

I believe that you ought to publicize prominently when you choose to release an unfinished product. Otherwise to the user, it looks like a Logos error that gets fixed after there are complaints. The tagging is what we pay premium prices for and what you market so it is reasonable to expect it.

I have returned ISBE before, because it was lacking the LVC tagging, and I did not know that it would be added later. If it had been communicated that Logos would be adding additional tagging at a later point, I would have kept the resource and understood why it was shipped early.

Do you have a list of dictionaries that are on your list to add LVC tagging? I am especially interested whether the Baker Illustrated Bible Dictionary (2013) is on it. 

Thanks, André

Page 1 of 1 (13 items) | RSS