visual filter to highlight only you or your with number

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Scott Bradley | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Oct 25 2014 3:10 PM

I am a rookie learning by example. It seems this group is where most visual filter questions appear.

I can highlight all pronouns and their number with "@V????P" or "@V????S" for plural and singular respectively. I've observed that this doesn't highlight implied you or your, where the word is not actually in the Greek.

But I can tell the number of most English pronouns by their form, so I don't want to highlight all pronouns, currently only "you" and "your."

If I match with "you,your @R???P" or "you,your @R???S" I get closer to what I want -- with the correct number, including the implied you or your -- but it also finds "them," "it," and some other pronouns but not "us" or "we." Interesting.

What's the right way to only filter and highlight "you" and "your" with the correct number (I'm using single vs double underline) whether in the Greek or not?

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 1:57 PM

I do not believe the morphological data in Logos Bibles is applied to the English text; only the original languages. If your intent is simply to have these terms catch your attention as you read you will have to hover over the term to see if it used in a singular or plural way. If your intent is to generate a passage list of every place you or your is used in a singular way I would suggest:

1. Do a bible search for all occurrences of "you" or "your" - Create a passage list document

2. Do a morphological search for @R???S - Create a passage list document

3. Go back to the original list you created and select merge. Perform an intersection of the two lists. The result will be a list of those verses where you or your occurs and is tagged in the original language as a singular pronoun.  

You can repeat the steps above for the plural occurrences 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 2:38 PM

Scott Bradley:
If I match with "you,your @R???P" or "you,your @R???S" I get closer to what I want -- with the correct number, including the implied you or your -- but it also finds "them," "it," and some other pronouns but not "us" or "we." Interesting.

Welcome Big Smile

Morph Search for singular pronoun with English translation of you OR your

@R???S WITHIN 0 WORDS (you,your)

Morph Search for plural pronoun with English translation of you OR your

@R???P WITHIN 0 WORDS (you,your)

Morph Search for singular verb that includes English translation of you OR your

@V????S WITHIN 0 WORDS (you,your)

Morph Search for plural verb that includes English translation of you OR your

@V????P WITHIN 0 WORDS (you,your)

Greek verbal conjugation includes singular or plural.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 7:48 PM

I was not aware morphological data was applied to english text. Clearly KS4J's guidance is the way to go. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 9:33 PM

Fredc:

I was not aware morphological data was applied to english text. Clearly KS4J's guidance is the way to go. 

Morph search finds morphology of original language.  Proximity searching finds English translation.  This search technique only works in resources with original language morphological tagging and English translation.

By the way, wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters

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Scott Bradley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 5:43 AM

Thanks for the insight, Keep Smiling 4 Jesus. Using proximity search with 0 WORDS appears to be the key to correctly matching word for word translations of specific English words, e.g. you or your.

(you,your) WITHIN 0 WORDS @R???P matches the plural pronoun
(you,your) WITHIN 0 WORDS @R???S matches the singular pronoun
(you,your) WITHIN 0 WORDS @D?P matches the plural article
(you,your) WITHIN 0 WORDS @D?S matches the singular article

By the way, (you,your) WITHIN 0 WORDS @R???P is empirically equivalent to the suggested @R???P WITHIN 0 WORDS (you,your) and I think more clearly shows the intent.

However, where the English word is implied by the translation of a Greek verb or noun it's not so easy. First, you can't use 0 WORDS, which would be ideal, because the proximity appears to be relative to the translation, not the Greek, so at best you need to use 1 WORDS.

(you,your) WITHIN 0 WORDS @V????P matches nothing
(you,your) WITHIN 1 WORDS @V????P matches too much

Looking at Matthew 7 ESV, the latter matches both you's in "you pronounce you" in verse 2 and "you; seek" in verse 7. And then you need a bunch of special cases, "you be not", "you will", "you be" etc.. In some cases the "you" was already matched correctly by an earlier pattern and gets matched again incorrectly because it's matching with the wrong verb. And then there are the pronouns implied by a noun, as in "You hypocrite" in verse 5.

My [novice] conclusion is that incorrect highlighting is too risky to misunderstanding when you try to highlight English words for number (or gender) that are not the result of direct word for word translation unless there is a way to do the following...

  1. Match based on the Greek word that was translated and not a proximal word.
  2. Stop matching after the first pattern that matches
  3. Don't match across phrases (Mat 7:7 is challenging)
  4. Control the scope of the highlighting (see example)

(you,your) BEFORE 1 WORDS @V????P  matches "you pronounce" in verse 2 and highlights both words separately rather than as one match. I would like to indicate "only highlight the you" -- which is what the construct implies, or indicate "highlight the ENTIRE match" so that if my highlight is an image after the match I get one and not two.

So, if those can be done, I need more insight, if not, should I post them to the wish list?

As for my project, highlighting the explicit "you" or "your" is very helpful. And it's pretty clear that the number of any un-highlighted "you" or "your" follows the number of the corresponding verb or noun, which are generally clear in English.

Thanks.

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Scott Bradley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 8:13 AM

Matthew 7:7 is interesting. Because "given" and "opened" are singular, proximity matching might incorrectly highlight the two "you" as singular, and in fact they are plural. This is referring to all disciples, not merely an individual. (Green markups are for verbs, changing the word to green means it's imperative, adding the squiggle-bang means "present imperative" -- or "follow this command repeatedly, as often as the situation arises.")

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Scott Bradley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 8:46 AM

The image I pasted into the compose box didn't appear, do you have to reference images on the web?

Mt 7:7

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 8:54 AM

Scott Bradley:
The image I pasted into the compose box didn't appear

You aren't supposed to "paste" anything into the thread. You are supposed to use the paperclip icon to attach an image. You can also link to a picture on other site via the paperclip.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 27 2014 10:23 PM

Scott Bradley:
Matthew 7:7 is interesting. Because "given" and "opened" are singular, proximity matching might incorrectly highlight the two "you" as singular, and in fact they are plural.

Noted "given" and "opened" are singular passive verbs with plural "you" objects.  The one giving and opening is singular.

Using highlighting palettes and filters => https://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters

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