[request] Ancient Literature

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 28 2014 8:55 AM

I would like a setting in the ancient literature tab on the Passage Guide to only show resources in my library. This would be consistent with other sections of the PG.

Thanks for listening

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:03 AM

John Fidel:
I would like a setting in the ancient literature tab on the Passage Guide to only show resources in my library. This would be consistent with other sections of the PG.

From my understanding I don't think this is  planned to change

The intention is that links to all data will be shown - if you hover over a link you will see a popup if you own the resource.

If you don't get a popup you don't own the resource. In that case, clicking on the link will open a Power Lookup panel with an option to purchase an appropriate resource.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:06 AM

Graham,

Thanks for the reply. This is inconsistent with the other sections of the PG. I prefer my library resources be the target of the PG. However, if that is how it will be then I can live with it. Imagine the commentary section opening and showing links to all the commentaries I do not own. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:10 AM

John Fidel:
Imagine the commentary section opening and showing links to all the commentaries I do not own. 

That would be rather unhelpful.

I think - and could easily be wrong - is that part of the difference is in how the sections are generated.

The commentary section is done using a search against a set of commentaries you own whereas the information regarding ancient literature is generated from a search which has been put together by a team in Faithlife and is common to everyone.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:19 AM

John Fidel:
I would like a setting in the ancient literature tab on the Passage Guide to only show resources in my library. This would be consistent with other sections of the PG.

The difference between this section and others is that this section isn't calculated from your library, but from a database that Logos have created themselves. That's great because it gives us more data.

For example, an edition of Augustine's Confessions might contain a particular cross-reference that shows up in your passage guide. If the data was calculated from your resources, you'd only see this cross-reference if you owned that particular edition. But this way, you can see the cross-reference even if you don't (which you don't like, I know), but you can also see it and open it in another edition that you do own (which you probably do like!). If Logos only calculated the links from our own resources, we'd lose that benefit.

Of course, it's theoretically possible to hide cross-references that we can't open. But I think this would be very computationally expensive, as Logos would effectively have to attempt to open every cross reference to see what happens, every time we run the report.

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Steven Branson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:23 AM

I upgraded to the Diamond package - but when I look for ancient literature or cultural concept I get "no results". What am I doing wrong or what do I not have that has to be a part of the Logos 6 to use these two areas.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:35 AM

Steven Branson:
I upgraded to the Diamond package - but when I look for ancient literature or cultural concept I get "no results"

Where are you looking for these - in a PG?

If so:

  • have you allowed any downloads to take place?
  • what passage are you looking at? It is possible that there aren't any results for this particular passage
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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:35 AM

Probably need to make sure it finishes indexing.

Steven Branson:

I upgraded to the Diamond package - but when I look for ancient literature or cultural concept I get "no results". What am I doing wrong or what do I not have that has to be a part of the Logos 6 to use these two areas.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:37 AM

Steven Branson:
I upgraded to the Diamond package - but when I look for ancient literature or cultural concept I get "no results".

It should work with Diamond.

After Logos 6 runs for the first time, it should download a bunch of datasets that provide this functionality. Only after those downloads have installed and indexed, the features should work. (That is they won't work the first time you run L6.) Have you had those updates yet?

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:40 AM

Mark and Graham,

I understand. Thanks for the replies.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:55 AM

Hi John.

Mark Barnes:
Of course, it's theoretically possible to hide cross-references that we can't open. But I think this would be very computationally expensive, as Logos would effectively have to attempt to open every cross reference to see what happens, every time we run the report.

This is basically the reason. Ancient Literature stores a series of datatype references with the relation between the Bible reference and the non-Bible reference classified. They aren't targeted to a particular resource. That way the links to Apostolic Fathers resources work with whatever verison of that resource you prefer (Lightfoot, Lake, Holmes, or Brannan? English, Greek, or German?). Same for Josephus and Philo (English or Greek?) and OT Pseudepigrapha (Charles, or Charlesworth? English or Greek?).

To not display links with no direct target, each link would need to validate on load for a given users library. That would be computationally expensive.

There may be some enhancements we could make in the future, like remembering whether a given 'work' subsection is expanded or collapsed in the Work view. That was suggested during the beta phase, and I've passed that on to our designers. No promises on that, though; we'll see.

Rick Brannan
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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:57 AM

Thanks Rick,

I now understand and am good with hovering to determine if I have the resource.

Great work on 6! I am really enjoying the new features and datasets.

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:03 AM

Steven Branson:

I upgraded to the Diamond package - but when I look for ancient literature or cultural concept I get "no results". What am I doing wrong or what do I not have that has to be a part of the Logos 6 to use these two areas.

Are you using a Passage Guide that you've customised? If so, you'll need to right-click on your customised Guide, select "Edit Guide Template" and add these two sections to it. They should appear automatically in the standard Passage Guide. I only offer this suggestion because I spent a good half hour looking for these sections myself before remembering that the PG I use is one that I customised (I have a section on commentaries that only shows those listed in the top 5 on the Bestcommentaries.com website for each Bible book as well as a couple of other customisations). 


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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 10:10 AM

John Fidel:
I now understand and am good with hovering to determine if I have the resource.

Great. Would it be helpful to remember expanded/collapsed sections? I need to get a feel of how hard (or not) to push for this feature to be implemented.

John Fidel:
Great work on 6! I am really enjoying the new features and datasets.

Glad to hear it!

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:10 AM

John Fidel:

I would like a setting in the ancient literature tab on the Passage Guide to only show resources in my library. This would be consistent with other sections of the PG.

Thanks for listening

As it stands, a setting for this is marked as an open design question for an unspecified future release. If you feel strongly about it, http://logos.uservoice.com is a great way to gather interest in the cause.

Another approach would be to style the hyperlinks differently: Blue for resources you own, gray for ones you don't. (Any votes for that?)

In the meantime, we decided that since it's a curated dataset (not calculated from your resources on the fly) and you paid for ALL the references when you bought it, showing them all would be best.

We're definitely listening. Thanks for the feedback!

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:20 AM

Eli Evans:
Another approach would be to style the hyperlinks differently: Blue for resources you own, gray for ones you don't. (Any votes for that?)
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 11:50 AM

Eli Evans:
Another approach would be to style the hyperlinks differently: Blue for resources you own, gray for ones you don't. (Any votes for that?)

I'd vote for it, but the technical difficulties are too great for it to be worthwhile (IMO).

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Jeff Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:04 PM

Another reason to show all the links is some users may have access to the resources outside of Logos, either in paper, pdf, or other format.

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:40 PM

Mark Barnes:
I'd vote for it, but the technical difficulties are too great for it to be worthwhile (IMO).

Quite so. The reason we didn't do this is that it would have slowed down drawing the section considerably while we tested all those links for valid destinations.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 12:47 PM

Eli Evans:

Mark Barnes:
I'd vote for it, but the technical difficulties are too great for it to be worthwhile (IMO).

Quite so. The reason we didn't do this is that it would have slowed down drawing the section considerably while we tested all those links for valid destinations.

I may withdraw my vote!

Would it be reasonable to consider drawing open or closed padlocks on a second pass?  If it has the same time debit I may prefer just leaving it as is.

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