Why go from Silver 5.0 to Silver 6.0 - Whats to be gained?

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Nov 8 2014 11:43 AM

Why go from Silver 5.0 to Silver 6.0 - Whats to be gained?

Are Sermons any easier to write if I am NOT diving into the useless datasets Logosians dreamed up?

I could just as easily switch to Chaplain''s Library - get a ton of new resources, and still have the same 6.0 goodness right?

How do I overcome the feeling of being duped if I switch to 6.0 - because its not simpler to use and more "common-every-day-user-not-a-developer" friendly as we all (ok maybe just I) hoped for?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 11:48 AM

JoshInRI:
How do I overcome the feeling of being duped if I switch to 6.0 - because its not simpler to use and more "common-every-day-user-not-a-developer" friendly as we all (ok maybe just I) hoped for?

I think it was Zig Ziglar who said "You need to do a checkup from the neck up and eliminate stinkin' thinkin.' For someone who hasn't even used L6 you are highly opinionated about it, Josh.

Why not just 'bite the bullet', get either upgrade and take 30 days to evaluate it? You can get a full refund at that point. Is there a reason you hesitate to do this?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:02 PM

My reasons:

Money and a growing disappointment that the hoped for Logos update is on some very basic levels a total bust.  

How about some dramatic new touch functionality for tablet users for example. That's an area noone - not even I - have broached as a subject yet.

I looked up Mr. Ziglar and liked this quote:  "You can disagree without being disagreeable."

Here's hoping v 7.0 has a "Simple Group Bible Study Mode" for the users who do not need fancy little Word Study graphic bubbles, etc.

I mean does anyone watching that video with the woman (wearing blue/white top, gigantic hoop earrings in front of her laptop marveling at new 6.0 functionality) convincing?   Its entitled "Delivering Insight".

I chuckled when I saw it (and not because its a woman either) but because the screen in front of her had some useless colored bubbles in a dataset I can't imagine a common user caring about.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:08 PM

JoshInRI:

My reasons:

Money and a growing disappointment that the hoped for Logos update is on some very basic levels a total bust.  

How about some dramatic functionality for tablet users for example...there is an area that no one not even I have broached as a subject yet.

Believe me I've heard you say this. What I want to know is what is wrong with free? As in 30 days free use if you decide to return one package?

No one here is going to convince you against your will to like Logos 6. So I suggest you either try it and if you don't like it return it, or stay in love with Logos 5 and use it until your operating system can support it no more. If you choose to do the later, then from then on log into the Logos 5 forum and don't further waste folks time here in Logos 6 when at that point you really don't want help.

You can put all your complaints and suggestions into an email to Bob@Logos.com. He'll read what you have to say.

You've got enough to go on seeing as how you don't need to take any risks. Logos will take them all.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:17 PM

That'd be Noet desktop and I think it'll come out before v. 7.0:

JoshInRI:
Here's hoping v 7.0 has a "Bible Study Mode" for the users who do not need fancy little Word Study graphics, etc.

Aply!
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Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:21 PM

With a program like L6 I'm confident the majority of users will be very very pleased. It's excellent!

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:35 PM

JoshInRI:

I could just as easily switch to Chaplain''s Library - get a ton of new resources, and still have the same 6.0 goodness right?



You don't get the same datasets... But yes. You get the free engine.

As to the concern over iOS/android, its on a completely different development track and the L6 engine has nothing to do with it.

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Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:45 PM

JoshInRI:

My reasons:

How about some dramatic new touch functionality for tablet users for example. That's an area noone - not even I - have broached as a subject yet.

Josh, if I have read your other posts correctly, you are like me in preferring Windows 8.1-based tablets. The problem is that we are in the minority. The reason Faithlife hasn't added touch functionality is because most people with tablets are using iPads or Android tablets. If the majority of people used Windows tablets, Faithlife would develop to them. I'm pretty certain that to do this would require an overhaul of the UI (user experience).

For what it's worth, Microsoft still hasn't come out with a touch-centric version of Microsoft office for Windows 8.1 tablets either. We're stuck using the desktop version.

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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:51 PM

JoshInRI:
I chuckled when I saw it (and not because its a woman either) but because the screen in front of her had some useless colored bubbles in a dataset I can't imagine common users even caring about.

Hi Josh,

This is why you are at a disadvantage to those of us who have had opportunity to test out the new functionality.

From your description, I think that the 'coloured bubbles' are the new Psalms Explorer interactive tool (as per below),

This tool enables me to filter the Psalms by author (below I have filtered all of the Psalms authored by David), 

And then by genre (below I have filtered Psalms which conform to the genre, 'Praise'),

I can then filter this down further (below, I have filtered Psalms in which the predominant theme is the love of God),

Personally, I think this is both cool and useful. This has already proved helpful in my own study and I intend on using this tool to plan a sermon series and Bible study (to run in 2015). (Additionally, I am thinking of ways in which the visual nature of this tool might prove helpful to my church.)

The lady in the video, if I remember correctly, is a worship leader/songwriter. Given that my wife also leads worship and writes songs, I can understand how useful this might be in the context of worship, songwriting and the Christian arts. 

From my perspective, it is this kind of functionality which is the most exciting aspect of L6. This particular tool is the result of considerable (human) input and really distinguishes L6 from anything else out there (as far as I am aware). I honestly think that these 'coloured bubbles' and the like signal a really exciting step forward. I understand you find it alienating and perhaps indicative of style over substance. I honestly think, however, were you to get your hands on it, you may reconsider your view.

You may disagree, but I honestly think, were you to try it out, you would begin to see the real value in some of these new features.

Blessings

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Rob | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:54 PM

JoshInRI:
"Delivering Insight".

Josh, did I read in one of your posts that you are studying to be a pastor?

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:01 PM

Wow Andy...that's a really well thought out even useful real world explanation.  I thank you for the time and effort it took to put together, Sir.

God bless you, your wife, and the woman in the video I mentioned.

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:07 PM

Yes Mr. Perron, God willing I am called to be a bivocational Baptist assistant pastor one day - which is why making a wise selection with my limited funds is so important.  

I acknowledge I have some growth to do in the discernment area and in designing even a simple post so its not remotely hurtful - but hopefully still delivers (pardon the pun) some insight.

I am thankful for the tool we all have in Logos (now Faithlife right?) but baffled (and perhaps a little publicly stunned) by the seeming lack of basic functionality of the new upgrade.

My vantage point is common person sitting in a group Bible study (or pew) using this great tool and being baffled and disappointed.

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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:10 PM

JoshInRI:

Wow Andy...that's a really well thought out even useful real world explanation.  I thank you for the time and effort it took to put together, Sir.

God bless you, your wife, and the woman in the video I questioned.

I am glad it was helpful, Josh.

There is a similar tool relating to Proverbs. It isn't as colourful (probably the reason it didn't make the promo video Stick out tongue), but I think I will find it really, really useful. It does a similar thing inasmuch as it breaks Proverbs down by genre, topic and theme. 

I would also check out Propositional Outlines (a visual filter which can be applied to any RI) which breaks down any NT passage in way which is very helpful to the preacher/student disposed towards arcing and the like. I have only begun to scratch the surface of this, but wanted to post a shot as I am guessing (from what I have read of your previous posts elsewhere) that this might appeal.

I can imagine the likes of Piper, MacArthur, Carson, Sproul, et al, being really excited about this kind of functionality (from a teaching perspective),

Blessings

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:12 PM

JoshInRI:

Yes Mr. Perron, God willing I am called to be a bivocational Baptist assistant pastor one day - which is why making a wise selection with my limited funds is so important.  

Excited for you brother. Calling to be an assistant pastor is very specific.
JoshInRI:

I acknowledge I have some growth to do in the discernment area and in designing even a simple post so its not remotely hurtful - but hopefully still delivers (pardon the pun) some insight.

I am thankful for the tool we all have in Logos (now Faithlife right?) but baffled (and perhaps a little publicly stunned) by the seeming lack of basic functionality of the new upgrade.

Its actually still Logos  for the software, only the company is called faithlife now.
JoshInRI:

My vantage point is common person sitting in a group Bible study (or pew) using this great tool and being baffled and disappointed.



I'm not sure why, or how. What basic functionality should it have that it lacks?

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:14 PM

I'm not sure how many users use a touch screen.

For all their resemblance to a ministry, faithlife is still a business, and if it made business sense to add a touch ui, they would have.

As to a bible study mode, I'm not sure what you're looking for... Open your notes to teach from, open your bible translation of choice, and off you go.

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:21 PM

To abondservant from a fellow doulos (In Christ)

I will get back to you on that one...i do not see a leaning or a bent toward basic functionality from the videos.  Datasets look challenging to me.  IMHO the only immediately apparent useful upgrade is the oneto the maps, people, places, and things that has like an overlay from what used to be to the way it is now.

I am beginning to change my mind from some of the posts above however.  Its possible to form an opinion from the plentiful official videos out now too both here and on youtube.  The bubble thing - well I laughed at it initially but can see it could be useful now.

I wish they would feature a video of a guy in a group Bible study holding say an Android Tablet or a (gasp) a Windows Tablet and making use of Logos 6.0.  Now that would be impressive and help sell a lot of upgrades!

p.s. Easier Default Bible Negotiation - Book - Chapter - Verse using single touch functionality on any Tablet would be nice for starters.

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Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:27 PM

Yes I'm pleased you've come to that realization.

JoshInRI:

I acknowledge I have some growth to do in the discernment area and in designing even a simple post so its not remotely hurtful - but hopefully still delivers (pardon the pun) some insight.

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Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:28 PM

JoshInRI:
I wish they would feature a video of a guy in a group Bible study holding say an Android Tablet or a (gasp) a Windows Tablet and making use of Logos 6.0.  Now that would be impressive and help sell a lot of upgrades!
Should this guy look a lot like you? Do you want to pose for the filming?Stick out tongue

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:28 PM

JoshInRI:

I am thankful for the tool we all have in Logos (now Faithlife right?) but baffled (and perhaps a little publicly stunned) by the seeming lack of basic functionality of the new upgrade.

My vantage point is common person sitting in a group Bible study (or pew) using this great tool and being baffled and disappointed.

What are some examples of "missing basic functionality"? It is my experience that most posts on the forums regarding "missing basic functionality" are either lack of knowing where to find it or disagreements with the way it is implemented. L6 addresses nearly all the missing basic functionality that I was personally concerned about. I am now comfortable putting Logos in the hands of the average parishioner for small group Bible study. What do you see as hindering that?

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:30 PM

Logos tries to make every upgrade set sufficiently resource rich to be a good deal. 

For those of us who have been using Logos since L4, L6 is a third generation and finally delivers a level of performance that L4 and L5 should have been. That's enough to go for.

All the extra baubles aside, Logos is a very accessible library. I look mainly at the resources in a given package and so do most users. 

I was blessed with someone's great kindness to pay for my L4 and then L5 packages and not a few great resources. Thankfully my rep gave me a great deal on L6 so I got some useful works to do my study.

I rely on Logos because I can't physically wrestle with lots of heavy books at my desk like I could back in the day. 

Everyone is different. My pastor is still on L3.

FWIW, look more at resources. Most people seem to go up a step when they upgrade because there are references that they want. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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