Apology for Server Failure

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 6:44 PM

Super.Tramp:

The blackout I remember in the North-East did not last several days. (Did it?)  And that scale of an outage is extremely rare.

I don't know which "blackout" you remembered. Stick out tongue

Rare? It depends upon  what you mean by "rare." They probably happen in the US several times every year for various reasons.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 6
Matt Swank | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 6:47 PM

I lived it.  Some had power in a day, some two days but there were still many who didn't have it for up to 4 days, including myself.  This is why true cloud based systems need redundancy in different regions of at the very least the country and probably the world.  I get that Logos isn't a massive company and that the cost of infrastructure is high.  However, if you are going to sell yourself as a cloud based system then you need the appropriate infrastructure.  If the cost is too high then Logos needs to either find solutions other than building their own data centers, or they need to not sell cloud based services around the world.

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 6:57 PM

Dear "Super"

[I have appreciated your posts throughout the years-back to the earlier non-forum version?]

But the summer of that Eastern Black-out, I was on my way eastward [from Alberta] towards my home in South Western Ontario. On hearing of the "blackout" I deliberately delayed my trip, taking extra time traveling through Minnesota, Wisconsin [and its "Dells"] and Illinois. Even then I still had to go our of my way [northwards of Detroit] to miss still blacked out areas.

Super.Tramp:
And that scale of an outage is extremely rare.

[hopefully, I agree]

Regards, SteveF

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 7:10 PM

I vote for the backup servers to be here in AZ.  We never experience power outages, simply because Phoenix would otherwise melt.  Plus Phoenix (or was that phoenix's) are verified by the apostolic fathers to quickly resurrect anyway (a major prooftext for Jesus' own).  So, no problem.


Posts 351
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 7:25 PM

Dear Matt, I can understand some concern about a blackout but most of what do in the software does not require internet.  I mean all of your books are on your computer, and you can still search.  I would have to say 80% or more of what you do does not need internet.  But I would like to hear what you would be missing out on.     

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 7:46 PM

Matt Swank:
I lived it.

It must have been prior to 2112.  I suffered a bit of memory loss that year. I will take your word on it. My apologies for challenging you.

Matt Swank:
However, if you are going to sell yourself as a cloud based system then you need the appropriate infrastructure.  If the cost is too high then Logos needs to either find solutions other than building their own data centers, or they need to not sell cloud based services around the world.
 I am with you on this 100%.   

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 8:03 PM

Super.Tramp:
It must have been prior to 2112.  I suffered a bit of memory loss that year.

I seem to have suffered memory loss that year too, because I can't remember it at all. In fact I could swear it hasn't even happened yet. Wink

Posts 6
Matt Swank | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 8:04 PM

True most, if not all, of your books are on your computer.  However, many of us use mobile devices more than the computer.  While we can have our books on our devices, many features will not work unless you are connected to the internet.  It's also my understanding that many features in Logos 6 are also dependent on cloud services.  Then there's proclaim.  It is almost fully dependent on cloud services.  Yes they have introduced a work around but that defeats the primary reason for using Proclaim.  It is sold as a cloud based service.  Without that function you may as well use one of the many other options out there for worship presentation.  The other options that do not have cloud based service do not have a monthly subscription. 

On a side note many people lost access to their books on their mobile devices.

Posts 6
Matt Swank | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 8:07 PM

Yah It was before 2012.  It's always good to be challenged.  Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 8:14 PM

Rosie Perera:
it hasn't even happened yet.

Reminds me of the Moody Blues'  "Days of Future Passed."

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Posts 351
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 8:15 PM

Well I am not talking about proclaim but I do understand on mobile devices, if you haven't downloaded it onto your device.  But you still fail to list any important features to you that you would be missing out on.  I have been using logos for 7 or 8 years now and until the last year I used it most of the time without an internet connection.  Sure you are going to miss out on some features but I had no trouble doing my reading and research for bible study, or sermon prep.  And unless I missed out on it I can't recall another time when the servers were down for an extended amount of time.

Posts 6
Matt Swank | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 16 2014 8:36 PM

First of all, logos isn't just logos desktop bible software anymore.  When that's all that they were, there was no real issue with a server crash. 

Secondly, I personally rarely use my computer.  I use my ipad.  The reason I invested in Logos is because of what I could do on my ipad with it.  You can't do word search or use other tools like your greek and hebrew tools without internet connection.  And for many people, even though they downloaded their books to their device they were unable to use them. 

As for Proclaim.  That's a big deal.  It's part of the Logos company and it is one of the services that basically quit working.  When that is down it effects your entire worship service.

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 6:11 AM

Super.Tramp:
2112

By then we'll be more concerned with the priests of the temples of Syrinx. (possibly my favorite album of all time :)

-Donnie

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 7:03 AM

Merry Christmas Mr. Pritchett...YOU personally may be the reason I retain version 7.0.

Glory to God!

Posts 603
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 7:22 AM

Regarding mobile devices and server failure: my solution is a tablet running Windows 8.1 so I can have Logos 6 offline. In my case, an Asus Vivo Tab Note 8 with 64 GB. The available GB may not be enough for those of you with massive libraries. For the rest of us, this solution answers the frequently posted frustrations with functions absent from the iPad (and I suppose from the Android).

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 7:30 AM

In 2004, we had a series of hurricanes hitting just weeks apart that left us without power for two, two week increments. Lost power for two weeks, it came back up for 6 or 8 days, and then bam, back down again. In 1993, the blizzard of '93 (or where I lived in Florida - the no-name storm, and now called the storm of the century by many) came up almost out of nowhere with little warning, and did considerably more damage than anyone could have expected. Its effects were felt from Canada to South America, and its epicenter was about 3 miles north of where I lived at the time. We had six feet of water in our home, which was itself several feet off the ground. Coast guard boats traveled in our front yard, and over our dock. As we were swimming (!) to safety, we saw dolphins crossing the highway. 

In NC where I live now, if it rains hard people forget how to drive and run over telephone poles, and all sorts of things. If it snows? forget it. Don't even leave the house; and don't plan on having power throughout the entirety of the snow fall either. 1/2 inch of snow and an entire state capital shuts down. 


In Florida we were prepared for that - a couple generators, a couple weeks worth of food, and water. Propane to cook on, and so forth. The worst part was the heat.

There are plenty of examples like this people can point to as reasons for offsite back ups. There are so many eventualities though (giant super-volcano erupts killing millions, causing second ice age, asteroid strikes can cause extinction level event, and on and on and on), that they all can't be accounted for. What about low yield nuclear device being detonated over Colorado, from which the resulting EMP would leave america in the dark ages for quite some time (some estimates fall into the 10-20 year range). I guess my point in all this is that only so much can be done to protect and prepare for the unlikely. Sure logos could have a server farm in the countryside of every major continent on the planet. Wonder how much extra that would make our books cost?

If we listen to the alarmists amoungst us life as we know it totters around the balance point back and forth between extinction for mankind and our relative safety. With threats coming from every vector, and with such scary news selling better than peaceful news; at some point we have to accept that there are some eventualities that just aren't feasible to predict, plan, or prepare for and roll with the punches when they come. 

This minor though annoying event (why is this still one of the top posts?) from two weeks ago now (?) maybe three weeks(?) - probably could have been prevented. Bob apologized, had a new plan in the works (redundant data center), and in light of what they learned, they made some changes to their setup to reflect a better (if not implicitly best) practice. 

If the worst part of our day was that we had to preach from memory, or paper notes - then praise God for His mercies. If you weren't hungry, dying, or watching someone you love go hungry or die then praise God for His mercies. 

Kudos Logos from learning from this. Keep up the good work. 

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 17 2014 8:08 AM

There is nothing alarmist about suggesting that a backup be sited more than 100 miles away, or possibly in another continent. One doesn't need to compare that suggestion with canards about the hungry and dying either. Why the smear and the pseudo-spiritual appeals to extreme?

Setting up a robust cloud structure is expensive and complicated. People have made billions doing this "simple" thing. Since F.L. has made cloud-based features a part of their product offering, they will have gone through the process of rationalization, cost-benefit analysis and planning, and will also take new circumstances to account.

I'm also sure that Bob or someone at F.L. will reveal future developments, in due time.

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