Why are not User Manuals Free?

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This post has 228 Replies | 8 Followers

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 11:17 AM

 

Bryan S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Noticed competitor's training seminar is one day while Camp Logos has two and three day schedules that indicates Logos has more capabilities to learn for efficient use.

Did you notice it was free to anyone who has purchased there program though, plus they have videos and webinars every day,

Here's the deal so perhaps you might get it for those of us that would like a manual. A manual is different than the the help menu in the top right corner, a manual I can read and study, the help ? is designed to help me when I realize I have a problem. A Manual I can read and study to see what the software can do  There are features in this program a lot of people don't even know about well for the simple fact they don't know the feature exist a manual would fix this. Plus a manual explains things in great detail it doesn't just hit the high points it hits every point and this is why a lot of people are frustrated with Logos.

Second I am thankful for all the free stuff Faithlife offers, but as long as I am paying for it I'm going to speak my mind about it your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, get used to it cause I'm here to stay.

Keep smilingWink

While I agree that it would be good to have the information inside of logos (and infact put all of the faithlife posts that were in the L6 forum for the launch into a PB which you can find in the files forum), I disagree with the language you are using, and your abhorrence of a third party charging for their work. It would be like being angry over being able to buy the "for dummies" book for your computer's operating system in its app store. Or being angry with Mercedes because Chilton's charges for the repair manual.

Glad you are here to stay. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but the loud mouse gets eaten.


L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 11:24 AM

Bryan S.:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Noticed competitor's training seminar is one day while Camp Logos has two and three day schedules that indicates Logos has more capabilities to learn for efficient use.

Did you notice it was free to anyone who has purchased there program though, plus they have videos and webinars every day,

Competitor's software lacks Visual Filter highlighting to show range of Greek verbal expression in a passage so their training is personally uninteresting.

Faithlife marketing would be better with more training materials.

Bryan S.:
Here's the deal so perhaps you might get it for those of us that would like a manual. A manual is different than the the help menu in the top right corner, a manual I can read and study, the help ? is designed to help me when I realize I have a problem. A Manual I can read and study to see what the software can do  There are features in this program a lot of people don't even know about well for the simple fact they don't know the feature exist a manual would fix this. Plus a manual explains things in great detail it doesn't just hit the high points it hits every point and this is why a lot of people are frustrated with Logos.

Observation: depends on user and manual whether explanation is useful.  Unread manual = unused.  Technical manual = unhelpful for non-technician.  Unfortunately, one manual does not all users help.

Primary business purpose for Logos Bible Software is enabling efficient study so time is available for other activities.  Personally desire "better results faster" so would appreciate Logos study techniques and work flow tutorials using software features to better prepare messages quicker.

Thankful for Faithlife facilitating user interaction and collaboration; personally have learned a lot from many friendly forum discussions plus have a lot to learn (boundaries of ignorance keep expanding).  Files forum includes thread => Logos 6 New Feature Guide (compilation of the official forum posts) with Word docx file created from forum threads.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2574
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 11:50 AM

I don't know whether other folks have thought about it in this way before, but...

any and every argument that users can easily find/collate useful info/tips also means that it's easy for some paid employee of Logos to do the same for the clueless/hapless users out there.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 12:23 PM

abondservant:
While I agree that it would be good to have the information inside of logos (and infact put all of the faithlife posts that were in the L6 forum for the launch into a PB which you can find in the files forum), I disagree with the language you are using, and your abhorrence of a third party charging for their work. It would be like being angry over being able to buy the "for dummies" book for your computer's operating system in its app store. Or being angry with Mercedes because Chilton's charges for the repair manual.

No I'm simply ticked over the fact that Faithlife doesn't provide a user manual with the program so I don't need a third party or the internet or a blog or a forum or a wiki or a etc...

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 12:49 PM

Bryan S.:
No I'm simply ticked

I get that.    You have a perfect right to be ticked. I hope you enjoy being ticked if that is where you wish to remain.  I decided a few years back to keep a positive outlook on life. So I made do with the Camp Logos DVDs, Mark Barnes' videos, and the free Logos videos. It was just not worth the trouble to carry that weight in my psyche.  Rejoice in the Lord always, again, I say, rejoice.

Merry Christmas,  Bryan.    May God bless your efforts to get us a user manual included with Logos. Yes

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:03 PM

Super.Tramp:
I hope you enjoy being ticked if that is where you wish to remain.  I decided a few years back to keep a positive outlook on life. So I made do with the Camp Logos DVDs, Mark Barnes' videos, and the free Logos videos

That's the problem you made do, why? you paid dearly for a program and should you not expect the best, since they clam to beSmile

And just because someone is ticked about something doesn't necessarily reflect their outlook on life, mine is quite positive. Even Jesus got angry from time to time...

Merry Christmas to you as well

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 797
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:06 PM

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 563
Jesse Blevins | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:15 PM

Just a friendly thought on the issue: 

Logos has really taken off with it's mobile ed division. Why couldn't they just have someone do a mobile ed type of course in which an instructor takes you through the software and give you a manual to follow along so you can highlight and note things.

I am currently working my way through Ben Witherington's course on the literature of John and that is how it is set up. I listen to the videos and read along with the syllabus and am very happy with what I have learned thus far.

Logos is and has always been on the cutting edge of Bible software. Part of the reason for this in my opinion is because they are not afraid of change but instead are willing to venture out and take risk.

Maybe it's time for them to change in this area.

I am not trying to take anyone's job away (Morris Proctor, John Fallahee, etc..) but maybe it's time to step up and meet this need. Logos has hired managers over different areas of study (Pentecostal, Orthodox, Catholic). Maybe it's time to create a position for this and help every one of their customers get the most out of their software.

Merry Christmas Logos Friends!

Smile    

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:17 PM

JRS:

That is GoodBig Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:18 PM

Jesse Blevins:

Just a friendly thought on the issue: 

Logos has really taken off with it's mobile ed division. Why couldn't they just have someone do a mobile ed type of course in which an instructor takes you through the software and give you a manual to follow along so you can highlight and note things.

I am currently working my way through Ben Witherington's course on the literature of John and that is how it is set up. I listen to the videos and read along with the syllabus and am very happy with what I have learned thus far.

Logos is and has always been on the cutting edge of Bible software. Part of the reason for this in my opinion is because they are not afraid of change but instead are willing to venture out and take risk.

Maybe it's time for them to change in this area.

I am not trying to take anyone's job away (Morris Proctor, John Fallahee, etc..) but maybe it's time to step up and meet this need. Logos has hired managers over different areas of study (Pentecostal, Orthodox, Catholic). Maybe it's time to create a position for this and help every one of their customers get the most out of their software.

Merry Christmas Logos Friends!

Smile    

Great suggestionBig Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2902
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:36 PM

Lee:
Spoken like a real drill sergeant.

Lee, if he is USMC, there's no such thing as a drill sergeant. He's a drill instructor.

If he's Army, then drill sergeant is correct. But since he called himself a DI, I was thinking Corps.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2574
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:57 PM

You're right. Pardon my ignorance of US marines protocol, sir!

All I know of USMC is from movies like A Few Good Men.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 3:21 PM

Doc B would be correct Simper Fi

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 4:19 PM

Lee:
All I know of USMC is from movies like A Few Good Men.

Try the old John Wayne movie Sands of Iwo Jima. Sgt Striker was a good DI. Me, I was USN, but I have a grandson who backslid and joined the USMC Crying

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 25 2014 1:01 PM

Morris Proctor may be Logos' authorized trainer, but he is NOT on staff for Logos/FaithLife. He is a standalone individual who graciously serves the Lord. His manuals, videos, and Camp Logos are 100% worth the money. I actually got to attend Camp Logos for free as a student, and now I wish I had paid for attending, since it was well worth it. I also wish I had bought Morris' lunch that day. He certainly deserved lunch on me. 

Another brother in Christ that was a former Logos employee and now stand alone is John Fallahee at LearnLogos.com. His live webinars are free to attend, and he charges very affordable rates for past webinars. His training video bundle is top notch as well and well worth the price. 

I am thankful to the Lord for BOTH of these fine brothers in Christ who serve to help us get the most out of Logos. Their materials are worth the investment. 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 10871
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 25 2014 1:17 PM

Looks like we're on thread page 5, and we've successfully demonstrated manuals for Logos can be written.  Apparently in the 21st century too. 

I'm still amazed people are so ticked off that someone is ticked off who wants a manual.  By folks that argue there's a god that controls their lives.

Day before yesterday, we were looking to replace our hefty water filter system.  Home Depot had a sign on one of the choices ... download the manual ... it's easy to install!!! And so, we did!  (Still deciding, since it looks too affordable, and easy to install.)

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 25 2014 2:10 PM

Denise:
I'm still amazed people are so ticked off that someone is ticked off who wants a manual.

I'm not sure that I'd describe most people as being ticked off at the fact that someone would like a manual. I think that there are other reasons that have already been articulated.

Personally I'd love to see a manual. I'm one of those strange people who like to read instructions, especially when I purchase something new.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 19
Bob Rockhill | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 8:07 PM

Add me to the list of those who want a manual. Someone just needs to make a PDF file on using Logos and all its functions. The program is not at all intuitive and I'm sure many are not using it to its full potential. I have the Morris Proctor  DVDs. I paid a lot of money for them. But I just don't learn that well by videos. I don't retain it well. A manual would be of great value to me. When I asked customer service why there wasn't a manual, they said it was because the program changes to often to have a manual. lol  Well, that's why there's a need for the manual. Once one is made, they can simple update it when features change and tell us it's been revised and we download the new version. I think they could start if off by putting in all the information from the online help files etc. and go from there. I'm old school. I like to read and have an index to refer to for help.

Posts 3520
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 8:15 PM

I wonder if a half-decent Logos/Verbum 6 manual could be cooperatively created by forum members...

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 8:29 PM

I'm not against having manuals for Logos. The ones Morris has put together are EXCELLENT, and as I've read through numerous ones, I've learned much more about the program.

In terms of Logos itself giving away a printed manual, while it can be done, I don't see it happening. Logos has moved to pretty much all digital downloads, and I don't see them investing in the staff to write a written manual then mail it out to every Logos customer when Morris already has some excellent manuals available. I'd rather the Faithlife/Logos staff focus more on getting Logos delivered and leave the training to the dedicated guys. I don't mind the extra investment to both brothers in Christ as both of them have taught me not only how to use Logos, but how to use it "smarter" and more efficiently in my Bible study and seminary work.

1. Logos comes with free QuickStart videos from Morris. I've watched these in the past, and they're an excellent introduction to Logos. Even as a seasoned user, I still learned some tricks from him.

2. The printed manuals Morris sales are worth the money. So are his videos. I've own and used both, and each encounter with them has deepened my knowledge of Logos. I recently read through the What's New in 6 manual. If you want to be quickly up to speed with the L6 changes, spend the investment and get this manual. You won't regret it at all.

3. Camp Logos is still a VERY good way to deepen your Logos training. Getting to have Morris train me in person, interacting with other brothers and sisters in Christ, asking questions, etc., it all was such a wonderful experience. I got my training for free as a student, but after taking it, it was so good, I should have paid anyway. He's worth it.

4. John Fallahee at LearnLogos.com also has an EXCELLENT, affordable video training bundle. I've watched his L5 one and preordered his L6 one. The in-depth training you receive there covers everything you're going to want to know about Logos, how to get the most out of your books, as well as how to use Logos for Bible study.

5. John's free live webinars are also a great way to stay sharp on your Logos skills, interact with people in a live environment, learn how to use Logos more efficiently, and learn some excellent Bible study insights along the way. His archives are also affordable and top notch.

I'm all for having quality training in Logos, but if you look around, there's more than enough quality training coming out of dedicated men of God serving us. I don't mind the extra investment in paying to have them train me how to better use my Bible software. They're worth the investment, and I'm just blessed to be able to learn from two of the finest brothers in Christ.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

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