Why did Joseph and Mary stay in Bethlehem for 2+ years after Jesus was born?

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Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 12:25 PM

Denise:
Regarding Lee, we have a gambling den installed in the forum next door, with the betting on how many replies to a Logos thread will occur, before the Logos police are called.  On this one, quite a few of the betters lost big-time (most bets were 6).  Yes, joking

Technically this is a discussion not directly related to how to use Logos, it's a discussion about something in the Bible itself (for which we can use Logos to research, I admit). It should go to the ChristianDiscourse discussion forum.

But short, non-controversial topics are often tolerated on these forums, especially if they illustrate how to use the software. This discussion does not seem controversial.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 646
Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 12:27 PM

Bryan S.:
Why are you Slamming me for this!!! I did not start this thread! and further more lee why where were you not saying this to the other 13 posters before me... Are you trying to pick a fight with me? I simply answered the mans question, your comments should be directed at everyone and not me!!!

Oh, don't worry about all these self-appointed Logos police - most of them just don't have anything better to do.  And they are usually the first ones to participate when the OT subject interest them.

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 12:32 PM

Bryan, I found your post helpful.  Thank you.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 12:48 PM

Michael:

Bryan, I found your post helpful.  Thank you.

You are quite Welcome Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 12:58 PM

Alex Scott:
Oh, don't worry about all these self-appointed Logos police - most of them just don't have anything better to do.  And they are usually the first ones to participate when the OT subject interest them.

Love the Lucy Pic, My 5 cents is on the way...Big Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2166
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 1:18 PM

Sam Henderson:

Joseph and Mary have a clear identity as proud Galileans, but they also have a heritage that involves stong and active kinsip obligations centred around the region of Bethlehem and the Judean hill country. They'll take their time to resestablish those links before heading north again to their Galilean home.

We were asked to specultate. Feel free to shoot me down.

Why would I want to "shoot down" someone that is correct?  I think that Joseph grew up in Bethlehem.  Also note that Joseph wanted to return to Bethlehem after the stay in Egypt.  Also note that the wise men visited a "child". So I also think that they were in Bethlehem for about 2 years staying with Joseph's friends and close family.  Scripture only give us the details needed for our salvation.  

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 1:53 PM

David Ames:
So I also think that they were in Bethlehem for about 2 years staying with Joseph's friends and close family

No couldn't be because of Luke 2:25-39 which clearly stated that after they left the temple in Jerusalem they went back to Nazareth. which is clearly stated in Verse 39.

So they stayed up to 40 days in Bethlehem then traved to Jerusalem because the days of purification were over. Dedicated Jesus in the temple then went back home to Nazareth.

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 819
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 2:05 PM

Bryan S.:

David Ames:
So I also think that they were in Bethlehem for about 2 years staying with Joseph's friends and close family

No couldn't be because of Luke 2:25-39 which clearly stated that after they left the temple in Jerusalem they went back to Nazareth. which is clearly stated in Verse 39.

So they stayed up to 40 days in Bethlehem then traved to Jerusalem because the days of purification were over. Dedicated Jesus in the temple then went back home to Nazareth.

Some Logos tools so we can keep playing in this sandbox: Using the reverse interlinear on Luke 2:39, I see the temporal term ("when" in the ESV) is the common hos. A word study on this shows that the word usually means like or as, but when used temporally implies that one event has come before another (or that they are contemporaneous), but it need not be immediately before. See: John 7:10, Acts 16:15, 19:21 for three instances where there was apparently a reasonable gap. Acts 16:10 includes the word
immediately," so that is not apparently implied.

The LN number is 67.45: 67.45 ἐπειδήb; ὡςd: a point of time which is prior to another point of time, with the possible implication in some contexts of reason or cause—‘when.’
ἐπειδήb: ἐπειδὴ ἐπλήρωσεν πάντα τὰ ῥήματα αὐτοῦ … εἰσῆλθεν ‘and when he had finished saying all these things … he went’ Lk 7:1.
ὡςd: ὡς δὲ ἐγεύσατο ὁ ἀρχιτρίκλινος τὸ ὕδωρ οἶνον γεγενημένον … φωνεῖ ‘and when the man in charge of the feast tasted the water which had turned into wine … he called’ Jn 2:9; τὰ δὲ λοιπὰ ὡς ἂν ἔλθω διατάξομαι ‘as for the other matters, I will settle them when I come’ 1 Cor 11:34.

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 634.

So, according to Luke, after they left the temple they went back to [edit: Nazareth], but this could be Luke telescoping details, since there is no need to understand this as "immediately went back to Jerusalem."

[<b>edited by:</b> Justin Gatlin at 3:50 PM (GMT -8) on Fri, Dec 26 2014]
Denise noted that the Temple is in Jerusalem. Oops.

Posts 2605
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 2:24 PM

Just thought you might like to see this. It's a video about a guy who used Astronomy to predict when the Magi arrived. It's pretty interesting. Not sure if it's correct, but it is food for thought. Takes about an hour to watch but worth the time. I showed it at my church a few years ago on a Wed night at Christmas time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPHKg0M3mEo

Posts 9454
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 2:35 PM

Uh, oh.  Justin's got the Temple semantically located outside of Jerusalem.   Absent a quick edit, that is.


Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 5:05 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Just thought you might like to see this. It's a video about a guy who used Astronomy to predict when the Magi arrived. It's pretty interesting. Not sure if it's correct, but it is food for thought. Takes about an hour to watch but worth the time. I showed it at my church a few years ago on a Wed night at Christmas time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPHKg0M3mEo

Active link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPHKg0M3mEo

Posts 2297
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 5:06 PM

Bryan S.:

Lee:

Bryan, I don't fault you for not knowing about this.

The Forums exist to support users, and to promote the company. Forum guidelines are here. General theological discussion fits better elsewhere.

Why are you Slamming me for this!!! I did not start this thread! and further more lee why where were you not saying this to the other 13 posters before me... Are you trying to pick a fight with me? I simply answered the mans question, your comments should be directed at everyone and not me!!!

No, Bryan, I wasn't slamming anyone, much less you. You wondered why talking about the contents of the bible (aren't they Logos resources?) would be frowned on, so I tried to explain the fuller context of what I meant.

As to "picking a fight etc. etc," really I don't deserve this. The sort of aggressive language you display, fueled in part by the conviction that others are interfering with the proper explanation of the holy writ, is precisely why FaithLife does not welcome theological debates per se on the company Forums.

Justin Gatlin:

Some Logos tools so we can keep playing in this sandbox:

Your analysis, using Logos tools, is quite relevant!

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 5:55 PM

Lee:
As to "picking a fight etc. etc," really I don't deserve this. The sort of aggressive language you display, fueled in part by the conviction that others are interfering with the proper explanation of the holy writ, is precisely why FaithLife does not welcome theological debates per se on the company Forums.

Lee let me be quite frank,

This post was started on Dec 23 2014 6:20 AM why were you not complaining about it to the original poster then? or even the next day as you were posting things on this forum those days. all of the post up until your post were quite chordal I read them all. And I can't tell but I don't think anyone posting on this thread had any issues with the question at hand. 

I quoted the bible numerous times in my post which you say is a logos resource. So it seemed there was no issue with you and this thread until I posted a response...So if you were not trying to pick a fight tell me why it took you so long to condemn this thread?????

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2297
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:03 PM

Let me also be quite frank, brother.

1. I'm not doing any condemnation. Stop the language cheap-shots.

2. This thread could go many ways, despite the invitation to "speculate". Even OT threads can go on track. I was suggesting that folks make it more relevant to the Forum's objective. If this offends you because that suggestion happens to come after your post, you're taking it personally when you shouldn't. I've explained myself with great care already, and if you insist this is a personal attack on you, even stooping to using aggressive language, then I'll let God be the judge.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:07 PM

Lee:
I've explained myself and if you insist this is a personal attack on you, and even using aggressive language, then I'll let God be the judge.

Fine, If you were not attacking me I apologize, but you still have not answerd my question why so long? why not post something as soon as a thread is started and not wait 4-5 days?

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2297
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:10 PM

Cool off, wait a few days, come back and read it again, ask the question nicely, and I might answer.

Posts 55
Will Scholten | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:12 PM

steve clark:

Perhaps they stayed in Bethlehem a little over 41 days.

In Luke 2:21-38 details how Joseph & Mary fulfilled the requirements of the law. Then in Luke 2:39 it says after fulfilling the requirements of the law that they returned to Nazareth.

In Matt 2:1-8 we hear of the Magi and Herod. In Matt 2:9 the Magi went on their way probably headed toward Bethlehem. But in the same verse it says that the star appeared and lead them to the house where Jesus was. It doesn't say that was in Bethlehem. So it is possible that the house was in Nazareth.

Edit: Or that the Magi's visit was within the time that Joseph, Mary & Jesus were still in Bethlehem. And Herod used 2 year old children to be sure he was thorough.

I think the Bible tells us in Luke 2:39-40,

39-40 

When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth. 40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

The shepherds, magi and trip to Egypt had to be within the 41 days, because of verse 39-40 says Messiah stayed in Nazareth after purification.

The star must have given them time to get to Bethlehem right after the birth.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:23 PM

Lee:

Cool off, wait a few days, come back and read it again, ask the question nicely, and I might answer.

Lee, I have no intention of re-asking the question, the silence says it all.

Lots of love in the Lord Brother. Talk to you again later perhaps in another thread Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2297
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:48 PM

Silence in the face of arrogance and aggression does speak volumes. It could also mean, as someone hinted at, that I have better things to do.

Posts 9944
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 26 2014 6:49 PM

Bryan S.:

David Ames:
So I also think that they were in Bethlehem for about 2 years staying with Joseph's friends and close family

No couldn't be because of Luke 2:25-39 which clearly stated that after they left the temple in Jerusalem they went back to Nazareth. which is clearly stated in Verse 39.

So they stayed up to 40 days in Bethlehem then traved to Jerusalem because the days of purification were over. Dedicated Jesus in the temple then went back home to Nazareth.

Except that Matthew says that they fled to Egypt.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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