Detailed History of Southern Baptist?

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This post has 22 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 31 2014 4:12 AM

I am trying to find information showing the move in the SBC from the historic Calvinistic belief, to the liberal side, then back with the Conservative Resurgence.  I have Reformed Platinum (v5) and Baptist Starter (v6), but cannot find this information.  I was hoping someone out there may have this information they can share with me.  What I have so far is that the change seems to have been initiated with E.Y. Mullins, since he was influenced by existential philosophers.  But I seem to have nothing past 1925.

Thank you if you are able to help me.

-Michael

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 5:25 AM

I'm SBC, but I'm not real familiar with the detailed history. I would point out that whether one is Calvinist or not does not in any way determine whether they are conservative or liberal, ie. there are liberal Calvinist. Liberalism here mainly refers to beliefs on inerrancy of scripture, women and gays in ministry, etc. SBC has intentionally (and I believe rightly) never taken a stance on Calvinism vs Arminianism.

Searching Logos for "conservative resurgence" should bring up some references in resources you may have. Some I see are:

The Baptist Heritage: Four Centuries of Baptist Witness
Baptists and the Bible
Biblical Authority: The Critical Issue for the Body of Christ
One Sacred Effort: The Cooperative Program of Southern Baptists
The Reading and Preaching of the Scriptures in the Worship of the Christian Church, Volume 7: Our Own Time
Ready for Reformation?: Bringing Authentic Reform to Southern Baptist

While I don't recommend taking Wikipedia as a primary source, the article, "Southern Baptist Convention conservative resurgence", has a detailed bibliography of some other works you might research.

There are some other SBC here on the forums who know much more about it's history. Hopefully, they will be able to offer some more guidance.

Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 6:31 AM

Thank you Randy.  You are right- Im studying the move historically from Calvinistic and the history led me to the liberal decline and then conservative resurgence.  I mis-typed, as the two got mixed in my head.  You are right- they are two distinct issues.  I would like to point out though not yet researched, but I have a hypothesis: Calvinist schools find liberals a vast minority, and Arminian Schools find liberals to not be so minority. 

Unfortunately, I don't have any of those resources you listed in my library.  I did, however, after my post go to Southern Seminary's website and You Tube channel and found some information.  YouTube has 2 videos that was helpful- still lacking details that I am looking for though.  All this information deals with the liberal-conservative issue, and not with the Calvinism issue.

Thank you for helping out.

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 3 2015 8:10 PM

There was an awesome class given by Mohler at Southern Seminary that covered this info. It was neat because it came from the President who fired and removed all the profs who would not affirm the Baptist Faith and Message. I will be back on Seminary grounds next year and I will see what is published on campus about this.

Posts 2
Matthew Allen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 3 2015 8:53 PM

Check with Founders Ministries.  I wish their stuff was in Logos!

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 4 2015 1:49 AM

You probably should read: Southern Baptist Theological Seminary 1859-2009,by Gregory A. Wills. Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press, 2009. xiv + 566 pp. $35.00. ISBN 978-0-19-537714-9. It's not in Logos though.

There's a review article in RevExp. That is in Logos and summarises the book in a very helpful way. RevExp and SBJT also have a couple of articles on E. Y. Mullins, and there's a chapter in Theologians of the Baptist Tradition.

Also useful is an article in SBJT 9 on "The Crisis of Scripture in Southern Baptist Life: Reflections on the Past, Looking to the Future"

Posts 877
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 9:31 AM

Love Worth Finding, available in Vryso, is Adrian Rogers' biography, written by his wife. It is not a comprehensive history, but it does have some interesting sketches of the events from someone who saw them up close and personal (one of the leaders of the resurgence).

Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 2:23 PM

I agree!

Posts 957
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 6 2015 5:48 PM

I came across this link through my Twitter and thought it might be useful: http://betweenthetimes.com/index.php/2012/12/19/the-conservative-resurgence-an-annotated-bibliography/ 

Posts 1691
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 6 2015 8:06 PM

Matt Hamrick:
would not affirm the Baptist Faith and Message

Hi Matt:

I think you mean "The Abstract of Principles". It's a more Reformed document than the BFM (which has strayed a little from its Calvinistic roots) and has been a contractually required affirmation for teachers there since Boyce unlocked the first lecture hall door. Thus, as you indicate, Mohler fired a number of profs (for breach of contract and basic dishonesty).

Here is a link to the Abstract:  http://founders.org/abstract/ 

Here is a comparison of the two:  http://dthomasporter.com/LogosAcademy/BaptistFaithandMessageRoots.pdf 

And finally, more to the OP's point, is a link to a Thomas Ascol book "From the Protestant Reformation to the SBC" http://press.founders.org/ Not in Logos, but both ebook formats are 2 bucks, so you could hardly go wrong.

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 2
Bradley Glidewell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 25 2015 4:35 PM

You may also find this interesting...

Trail of Blood wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trail_of_Blood

A main point in the booklet: Baptists were never part of the Catholic Church so there is no such thing as a "Protestant" Baptist.

Posts 1691
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 25 2015 4:55 PM

Bradley Glidewell:
Baptists were never part of the Catholic Church so there is no such thing as a "Protestant" Baptist

They might be right, but for the wrong reasons. Sadly, there are many Baptist who aren't protesting anything, and whose soteriology has no resemblance to anything out of the Reformation.

However, i will observe that I've heard a number of non-Calvinist Baptist ministers, who nevertheless wish to claim some heritage of the Reformation, and will speak of their admiration of Luther (as opposed to Calvin). What is not known is how many of them have read The Bondage of the Will.

Win 10 Android 8.1 Fire OS 5

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 26 2015 10:50 AM

According to my baptist history prof, the trail of tears traces "baptist" heritage through groups that didn't baptize and were espousing outright heresy.

Groups like the waldenses - to name one - where iirc apostolic poverty was the only true path to salvation. Interesting to note there is no known record of them having baptized anyone.

Interesting to point out that the movement basically died out because nearly all of them joined protestant churches during the reformation.

As I recall this landmarkism also tied our origins to Anabaptist - which is true in part. But so is our Calvinistic heritage. We've always been a denomination of two soteriologies.

Nathan Finn wrote a book about Baptist History that I had priveledge to read in his class. Its being released Aug 2015.

http://www.amazon.com/Baptist-Story-English-Global-Movement/dp/1433673754/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424976620&sr=8-1&keywords=nathan+finn . Would love to have this in Logos.

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Posts 2
Bradley Glidewell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 26 2015 11:42 AM

According to the booklet, Baptist were given the name which is derived from "ana-Baptist" given by the Catholic Church due to their refusal of non-believer baptism.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 26 2015 11:57 AM

I think most landmarkians have shied away from that - at least in academic circles.

Most of the scholarly examinations of the booklet have found it wanting in logic, continuity, and orthodoxy.

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Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 7:28 AM
Well, from my own perspective and study, I find all semi-Pelagian leanings to be wanting of logic, continuity and orthodoxy.  But I love my ignorant (not intended as a pejorative adj.) brothers, as that can be cured.  And just for the record, Southern Baptists were formed based on a 3 point Calvinistic understanding.  Of course, since then, liberalism crept in along with non and even anti-Calvinists.  I can serve and worship (most of the time) with non-Calvinists, but not with anti or liberals. I appreciate all for chiming in.  I did find what I was looking for on this.  SBTS and Founders had plenty of information.
Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 12:23 PM

You might pre-order the Finn book - you may be pleasantly surprised.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 877
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 8:11 PM

Robert M. Warren:

They might be right, but for the wrong reasons. Sadly, there are many Baptist who aren't protesting anything, and whose soteriology has no resemblance to anything out of the Reformation.

Fun fact, according to a prof I had in undergrad (secular). Protestant as "one who protests" doesn't come from the reformers, but from the RCC. It probably means "pro testari," for the testimony. So it was the Papists versus the Protestants. Those for the Pope versus those for the Scriptures. 

Posts 622
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 19 2018 1:51 PM

Wow, so much has changed since this post over 3 years ago!  Nice resources have been added- including the Founders Press stuff.

Posts 2794
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 1 2018 1:01 PM

Mark Barnes:
You probably should read: Southern Baptist Theological Seminary 1859-2009,by Gregory A. Wills.

I read that book and found it to be outstanding.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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