If I had a million dollars (to grow Logos Bible Software)...

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Posts 468
Charlene | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 4:53 AM

Bob,

Thanks so much for your continual interest in what we, your customers, think and want.

I love Logos and have used it fo many years and have gotten other people involved. I would have gotten more involved, but the cost is the major thing. You may have used "free" products in the past to get more users to your software, but how many of us knew about them? Somehow I missed it or otherwise would have been handing them out to friends and students. One major way to increase your customer base will be to have a cheaper beginner level product. I would suggest under $50. It doesn't have to have massive programs, but it would need to have quality. So include a Bible, such as the ESV or NAS95, a concordance, and a good commentary on the whole Bible. And include your latest map set. This would be enough for us to show others how easy it is to use software to do some serious Bible study.

Also I would suggest you use the money to get all the pre-pubs ready and shipped. Along these lines I would suggest you not offering more pre-pubs, until you catch up! I know, I can't believe I am saying this, as I love most of what you offer. BUT even though I have been a major supporter of Logos and Pre-pubs, presently it is becoming "too many" to choose from. Thus I am having to choose less, in order to "cover" what I have already ordered. You are spreading yourself too thin, and the customers are being overwhelmed with the massive Pre-pubs coming our way.

I would also suggest that you get PBB working for Logos 4 and then hire some faithful Logos users to get the "free domain" books available to the public in this format at a lower price and you spend your efforts with newer books.

Another way to develop your customer base is to make sure that the present customers understand how the program works. It is great that you offer the videos on the different aspects of the program, but many of us are visual learners and need a written manual to refer to; something that we could quickly look up a feature, without having to go online and try to find out the appropriate video or solution. I appreciate what Morris is providing through his manuals, but they are too expensive even apart from shipping. I would suggest that you spend money on developing manuals that can be downloaded as part of the program itself. Then as we (your long time customers) know how to use the program effectively, then we can get others involved. The best advertising has always been word of mouth.

And of couse continue opening up other venues of accessing your books, such as Kindle, etc.

And as previously mentioned, update your web site and forums. The forum is too difficult to find answers to problems that have been previously. The searches attempted often have nothing to do with the problem at hand. Thus another reason to have a downloaded manual, one that can be constantly updated, as new features are being added.

Thanks again, Bob, for all that you are doing. Your hard work is making a difference in many lives!

Charlene

Posts 2977
Forum MVP
Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 6:17 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Wow -- all this feedback is fantastic. I really appreciate it!

Since so many of you have mentioned free or less-expensive starter packages, I'd like to comment on it.

We've tried a variety of trial versions, starter packs, and very inexpensive starter versions. (Granted, some of these experiments were many years ago.) Our experience is that offering free products identifies people who like free things. Offering $20 products identifies people who'll spend $20. Few (if any) of these people ever upgrade.

Offering a $250+ package identifies people who care enough to invest "real money", and they come back and upgrade, buy more books, etc. at a much higher rate.

The e-Sword web site, for example, advertises 9 million downloads. To the best of my knowledge, e-Sword is one guy, Rick Meyers, who works at home. Rick seems like a great guy, and it sounds like he has a great time and provides a wonderful tool for millions of people.

But building and supporting Logos takes 175+ people. We don't serve anywhere near 9 million people, but we're able to deliver more books, more features, more support, etc. -- and feed the big team that requires.

Of course, nine million users sounds great. So we do keep experimenting with free low end stuff. http://bible.logos.com is free, and the Logos iPhone app offers 31 books simply for registering. In three months our iPhone app has had a number of downloads equal to three years of new customers for our desktop software. And some of those people have bought Logos 4.

But the total sales volume of new users found via the free iPhone app hasn't yet covered our iPhone development costs. 

So keep the ideas coming -- including the ideas of how to make free / freemium work -- but feel free to also send ideas on how to find more people willing to invest in a real (and real useful) digital library. :-)

Or how to offer even more compelling value to our existing "serious" (and funny, clever, handsome) user base: you.

-- Bob

 

I agree. Freebies every once in a while are good, but too many freebies and it tends to degrade your product. 

I think that the reason that fewer than expected people have bought into L4 from the iPhone app is because the upgrade is not intuitive, and buying more books is very difficult and would involve learning an entirely new paradigm. If books could be purchased from within the app, it would probably generate more sales.

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 6:36 AM

Bob,

I think the market is changing with regards to e-books. The introduction of the Kindle (and other e-readers) and the upcoming iBook on the iPad seems to be convincing people that ebooks are a viable alternative to print. My attitudes towards e-books have changed a lot since I bought Scholars back in '02. I think another trial run at a free/cheap package might be appropriate.

Posts 274
Daniel Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 6:50 AM

One variation on the free/low-cost approach is to offer once a day, or even once a week, a specific title/collection (of books, not base package) at a discount (maybe between 25% and 90%, depending on the item).  I know at least one of your competitors does this, and I have purchased a few, only because they're not available in Logos and so inexpensive.  For example, a $10 title could be sold for between $1 and $7.50, and so on. 

Personally, as much as I would like to support Logos more by buying every title I'm interested in, good stewardship requires me to target package deals where I can get titles for around $5-6/volume or less, and/or wait for major upgrades like the recent offer for Platinum.  I've made a few exceptions for textbooks I need for seminary, but even there, I would have tended to get all my textbooks that are available in Logos for a class if they could be offered as a package, or "buy 5, get ___% off".  That might not be feasible due to initial costs/publisher agreements.  And I'll be done with seminary in the next year, so it won't be as relevant for me, but for people like my brother who starts seminary in the fall.

I live in an apartment, so our bookshelf space is maxed out. Electronic books are ideal for reference/commentary series - space-saving, convenience, speed, etc.  But, due to limitations of reading on a laptop or computer screen for long periods of time (ergonomics more than eye strain), I've avoided buying books "to read", which are a different category to me than reference  books (commentaries, textbooks, or books included in a base package). I would buy from Logos, because you've had a long track record, compared to many of the new e-reader companies which are still in the experimental stage.

Library.logos.com is one option I've started using (to access a few of those textbooks and read on my phone), but since there's no Windows Mobile app, the reading experience can  be frustrating.  As much as I'd like to get an iPod Touch/iPad/iPhone, the initial/recurring costs especially for the last two devices would be way too high for me.  So it's either wait for tablet PC w/ keyboard prices to hit sub-$500, wait for a Windows Mobile app, or stick with what I have and not add new "for reading" books for a while.  I guess another possibility is to see if library.logos.com evolves on a par with the desktop program, and then I could consider a more basic reading device (something with a bigger screen than my phone but very basic).  I'm guessing eventually the website access to books would have to be a subscription-model service, though?

Thanks for listening to all our feedback!  You have a great company, excellent customer service, and I anticipate eagerly how you will continue to innovate and provide valuable ministry resources.  I've greatly enjoyed the Logos 4 experience, as well, and am excited about how it continues to develop.

Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 7:08 AM

Charlene:
You may have used "free" products in the past to get more users to your software, but how many of us knew about them?

Charlene,(don't feel too bad)  I believe Bob has to be talking almost 15 years ago, and in computer stuff that is a "lifetime" ago.

I also agree with the comment that in terms of competition back then, all of the few companies seemed to be trying to "re-invent" the same "wheel."

But it was one of those "freer" starter packs that introduced me.

And the one that "hooked" me forever was the Logos-Nelson ("green colored?) 100 book unlock in the $10-20 range. That CD convinced me as to just what Logos could really do. It had a nice mix of commentary, dictionary, language etc  I gave one of them to a family member AND both of us have upgraded "big-time" since then.

It can work.

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 8644
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 7:20 AM

Please permit me comment again on some of this.

Lower entry point for the more "casual" student of the word.

Bob Pritchett:


We've tried a variety of trial versions, starter packs, and very inexpensive starter versions. (Granted, some of these experiments were many years ago.) Our experience is that offering free products identifies people who like free things. Offering $20 products identifies people who'll spend $20. Few (if any) of these people ever upgrade.

Offering a $250+ package identifies people who care enough to invest "real money", and they come back and upgrade, buy more books, etc. at a much higher rate.



Yes those lower entry packages may not buy more books, but even if they buy the package once, that's an investment that represents revenue.  The question I can't answer is: does $250 really equal the minimum that will at least pay for the employees involved?  If it does I can say no more.  If not, what does?  

I wonder if there's a sweet spot somewhere between 20 and 250?  I have no doubt you were vastly summarizing the research you've done.  But several times I've wanted to buy a starter set for a pastor to get him interested in Logos; the cost prohibits me.  What I did once was to purchase what used to be a $50 NASB only package from the NASB editors and give it to a fellow pastor friend who still uses that same package.  The reason he hasn't upgraded to more books isn't because he doesn't see the value of them; but largely because he doesn't get how to use the program.  That flaw in training has largely been overcome with the addition of the videos for L4 which are, as I understand, now included in a DVD in the box.
Keep in mind that integrating purchasing ability INTO the program will automatically generate a revenue stream.  All of the app stores out there kind of demonstrate that pretty well.

Digital Bible Institute

Kevin A. Purcell:
What I would like to see someone do ... and you have the resources to do it ... is create a digital Bible study institute. Sort of like a Bible college but focusing on how to study in the modern age.


Bohuslav Wojnar:
It's very interesting idea. Having long time experience with the Global University, I can say there is a market for that. But it would take Logos to an entirely different area of operation.


Well not exactly Bohuslav...  Logos already has an under-marketed partnership along this path.

Moody Bible Institutes Distance Learning Program now has a program like that which uses Logos.  Perhaps the answer to this opportunity is to invest further into that already existing partnership.

Moody AM is a Logos Product which forms the first half of that digital bible institute. 

Right now I do not believe a degree is attached to the program but I see no reason why under their existing accreditation a degree program could not be developed.

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 9:20 AM

For the first time in many years I see that there is a chance for a real change in the body of Christ, and how we train one another and our leaders. I hope Logos can be a leader in this change!

With the current level of research ability and the resources that can be found in Logos 4, we have a way of training each person in a fellowship group to the level that even pastors would love to be trained to.  One of the draw backs at this time is still a lack of vision to see what is possible and enough people that really understand how to use Logos or any electronic bible study program, so they can train others to use Logos or another program, but that day is coming when that will be over come, although it may or may not be Logos they use.

For example people may or may not be aware of what is going on along these new educational lines, but here is an example.  The church of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa has already put out a CD of The Word bible study program with over 600 free resources on it for free.  They have also already had their first big event where people could come to the fellowship, get a free CD and learn how to use the program right there at the fellowship!!!

They are currently getting ready to have another big meeting on how to use The Word bible study program in Febuary that will be streamed on the internet and also posted for free on Youtube. You can see the annoucement here http://forum.theword.gr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1583 Can you imagine the impact this would have on the future of Logos, if they were giving away free Logos programs instead of the Word program!!!

One of their pastors Doug Hamp has a web page that deals with the Word http://thefirstsixdays.com/TheWordBibleSoftware.htm if Logos is interested in what the future could be in electronic bible study and how the local church may use it someone should get in contact with these guys and see what is going on.

Along  these same lines, I personally am using electronic bible study programs to show members of the local fellowships that I attend how to educate everyone and everyone how to study at levels never seen before. 

On top of that I have taught several elders from near bible churches how to use the Word and it is changing their lives, they can not believe the research they can do, without going back to school, they can learn right where they live!   Of course they do not get a degree, but they are more interested in what they can learn than in getting a degree.  These elder have caught on and are giving out free programs to members of their fellowships although they have not gone the next step of showing the members how to use the free programs, right now I end up doing that.

At the present time it is these free packages that allow these programs to get started, but none of these programs have either the features of Logos or the resources of Logos, but they have enough features and resources to change how people learn and they also allow anyone anywhere to start learning at a level only dreamed of before!

In Christ,

Jim

 

 

Posts 227
Jeremy White | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 9:40 AM

I can appreciate that for the most part the cost involved in obtaining something is directly connected to how much "value" a person places on it - so some how you've got to change the value proposition to more than just - here is a different way to look at some text on a screen. If that is all I considered Logos to be (effectively a glorified pdf reader) then there is no way I would consider forking out the sort of money I have and plan to continue doing so. In actually fact - I understand Logos to be a tool by which I can tap into the inspired word of God not only for my own edification but to pass on to others -which brings me to that other big trend in IT these past few years - social media.

I think it has come through fairly clearly in this thread that the primary motivation in for suggesting lower entry options is not to help the company called Logos grow (as much as we  like and appreciate you all) - but rather to see individuals we are ministering to in one form or another grow in their own faith and learn to how to better feed themselves spiritually. So in a sense, providing lower cost bundles (assuming they have sufficient functionality) is still playing to your primary market who are also your most powerful advocates and end user training personnel.

Consider this scenario. I'm speaking to someone or they make contact with me regarding some spiritual issue they are grappling with - I can provide some immediate counsel, pray with them, encourage them but I can also promise to follow up with them. BAck at my computer I can prepare a package of suggested readings or notes that I believe will be helpful for them - a click a button or attach the package to an email and sent it out to them - they're able to open it in their version of the software and add their own notes or questions which they could choose to send back to me for further comment.

Or how about, a bible study group that has a shared note file along with a discussion forum so that interaction can continue all the week through. Particularly in this scenario I seems appropriate to expect some financial contribution - I see little difference to this type of thing versus telling everyone "Hey we're doing a study on ____ and the study guide book is going to cost $x - except the possible ongoing impact of giving people access to a tool as powerful as Logos is worth far more than that one off packaged study with DVDs.

Anything, that Logos can do the streamlines my workflow to allow me to be a better discipler of men, women and children gets my vote.

Scripture set to music for worship and aid memorization. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-DojPa0TlpCGhtUJq1e3Pw

Posts 274
Daniel Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 9:50 AM

JimVanSchoonhoven:

For the first time in many years I see that there is a chance for a real change in the body of Christ, and how we train one another and our leaders. I hope Logos can be a leader in this change!

With the current level of research ability and the resources that can be found in Logos 4, we have a way of training each person in a fellowship group to the level that even pastors would love to be trained to.  One of the draw backs at this time is still a lack of vision to see what is possible and enough people that really understand how to use Logos or any electronic bible study program, so they can train others to use Logos or another program, but that day is coming when that will be over come, although it may or may not be Logos they use.

For example people may or may not be aware of what is going on along these new educational lines, but here is an example.  The church of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa has already put out a CD of The Word bible study program with over 600 free resources on it for free.  They have also already had their first big event where people could come to the fellowship, get a free CD and learn how to use the program right there at the fellowship!!!

They are currently getting ready to have another big meeting on how to use The Word bible study program in Febuary that will be streamed on the internet and also posted for free on Youtube. You can see the annoucement here http://forum.theword.gr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1583 Can you imagine the impact this would have on the future of Logos, if they were giving away free Logos programs instead of the Word program!!!

One of their pastors Doug Hamp has a web page that deals with the Word http://thefirstsixdays.com/TheWordBibleSoftware.htm if Logos is interested in what the future could be in electronic bible study and how the local church may use it someone should get in contact with these guys and see what is going on.

Along  these same lines, I personally am using electronic bible study programs to show members of the local fellowships that I attend how to educate everyone and everyone how to study at levels never seen before. 

On top of that I have taught several elders from near bible churches how to use the Word and it is changing their lives, they can not believe the research they can do, without going back to school, they can learn right where they live!   Of course they do not get a degree, but they are more interested in what they can learn than in getting a degree.  These elder have caught on and are giving out free programs to members of their fellowships although they have not gone the next step of showing the members how to use the free programs, right now I end up doing that.

At the present time it is these free packages that allow these programs to get started, but none of these programs have either the features of Logos or the resources of Logos, but they have enough features and resources to change how people learn and they also allow anyone anywhere to start learning at a level only dreamed of before!

In Christ,

Jim

Jim - I appreciate your heart for training people, and I have a few questions.

Something that I have found is that 1) I like computers, so an electronic (local install) or web-based bible study program just makes sense, whereas my wife may never use something beyond bible.logos.com. So I don't know if lack of a free program/free resources, or dislike of using your computer for Bible study is a bigger obstacle for people.  Also because of those who can't/won't afford a laptop, it would be hard for some churches to have a training session (or series) like you describe.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but aren't there more obstacles to broad acceptance of electronic Bible study than merely the cost of software or electronic books?

Also, 2) Bible study takes work and time, regardless of whether you use printed materials or electronic. The tools (ie search functions) cannot substitute for reading, rereading, and thinking about the Bible text. While some kind of brief training in tools would be great, it would have to be carefully structured. Some basic instruction on hermeneutics would be essential to prevent misuse of the text or the tools, ie looking up a word's definition and picking the one "I like best" rather than the most likely meaning (see lexicons) in a particular verse/context.  But you're probably doing some kind of basic hermeneutics training in addition, right?

People also need a framework, and I think a few good concise OT/NT introductions/surveys, some kind of systematic theology, a concise commentary, and a concise Bible Dictionary, plus a few modern translations would help most people understand the Bible far better than they do (quality vs. quantity). It would be great if Logos had an inexpensive package along these lines to help people get started.  Something (not necessarily these) like Paul Benware's OT/NT survey books (not currently available in Logos?), maybe Ryrie's Basic Theology, Holman Concise Bible Commentary, and the ESV, NIV, NASB, as an example. What do you think?

Posts 31
Josh Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 10:46 AM

thanks for allowing us to be a part of this process!

the number one thing I'd do would be to invest it in developing Logos' mobile capabilities. Integration with the iPhone has been a great move for Logos. It is allowing the software to gain exposure with new people who otherwise would have never purchased the base package. This needs to be extended and expanded however. I fully agree with Jacob Hantla's remarks. Developing integration with some form of e-reader (which uses the digital ink and is less strenuous on the eyes) as well as development of apps for other non-Apple phones and devices is a must.

I also agree with all the comments about a lower introductory starting point. I personally started with gold, but have dozens of friends who are interested in Logos, but balk at the price. Better digital marketing through apps and improving the process of buying books as well as an inexpensive simplified basic platform would take the company to the next level.

One final thought although I don't believe this would be as helpful in attracting droves of new customers. Improvements the user friendliness of morphological and syntax searches would draw some of the accordance and Bible works crowd over and make the platform even more valuable for the rest of us as well.

Thanks in advance for continuing to improve the best Bible software on the planet!

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 11:10 AM

Daniel Lee, first off I have been doing this for several years and I have already seen the results of what happens when folks start studying the Word of God for themselves.  Faith comes from hearing and hearing the Word of God.

You are correct some people are afraid of computers and some can not afford them.

But, Ithe first problem  is usually related to age, the older the person is, the more likely they will fear computers and the younger they are the more likely they are to fear books! 

Kids that would never pick up a bible will read a bible on a computer!  Education goes along way when it comes to training people on how to study the bible on a computer, and I have found that netbooks help older folks to get use to handling computers, and yes I have to start at the very start and show them how to use a computer, how to turn it on and turn it off.  And how they can make the print bigger or smaller!

I personally have my own personal laptops along to loan to those that do not have a lap top.  I also go directly to people's homes to teach them on their desktops.  What ever it takes to get them into the word. I have also seen small groups of believers pitch in and buy computers for those that could not afford them.

Currently one of the big draw backs concerning Logos is the computer requirement, it was not like this with Libronix 3, but Logos 4 will be a much bigger problem.  However with programs like the Word or even E-Sword you don't have this problem.

Also the church itself may want to buy some computers that are inexpensive, and either allow fellowship members to either check them out for home use or allow them to use them on site.

Of course I am not saying that everyone will become a part of such programs, but I am saying I have already seen the results and they are life changing!

As for what you teach, you are right you have got to show them not only how to use the program, but also good bible study methods, and since you control what is being taught and what passages you are using, it is easy to show them good methods and bad methods.

As a Pastor, I liked to preach, but over the years I have discovered I see more results in people's lives, if I lead people to Jesus and let Him teach them.  I no longer preach, I spend my time encouraging believers in Christ.  I spend time teaching them how to study the scriptures and I am confident that the same God that reveals the scriptures to me reveals it to them!

I am big on home bible studies, but a bible study is not a place where some one comes and listens to me or some one else as we tell them what we got out of the scriptures, a home bible study is where a group of us go, to get into to certain passages of scripture and actually apply bible study methods in real time to that passage, we read it through several times, remind ourselves how the passage fits into the over all book, we check out background materials, lookup and read cross references, look up every usage of key words, use dictionaries and lexicons to define key words, plus everything else that comes with bible study.  We actually do it right there!

This has changed people's lives more than any preaching that I have ever done.  I get people calling me up day and night wanting to talk about something they saw at these bible studies that lead them into more bible study at home and they want to share with me what God has shown them!

My little netbook allows me to get into the scriptures with any one any place.  Although my netbook died a few weeks ago when it blew off the roof of my car at 50 mph and was than ran over by another car.  I am saving up for it's replacement because it is such a great tool for the ministry that God has me in.

We have to be open to change and flexible in what we do, our purpose is to lead others to Christ, and then to keep pointing them back to Him.  We desire to get them into the Word and trust Him to change their lives as He has ours!

In Christ,

Jim

Posts 147
Scott H. Clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 11:17 AM

I'm not sure how often it's been mentioned in this thread, but I believe Logos needs to develop support for e-readers, blackberry/Android phones, iPad, and all other manner of portable devices that allow the user to take their library anywhere.  Consider this my +1 to any/all previous comments to this end.  Big Smile

Posts 269
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 11:19 AM

I think the idea is to get more people into using Logos to help them in studying the Bible.  Isn't that right?  And in order to do that, people have to know that your product is out there and you have to be able to show them what your software is capable of doing

Best way to do that is to make a free or low cost entry package available to people, and you make it easier to use.

OF COURSE this would mean that you will give away 50 free or low cost entry level packages for every 2 people who will upgrade to a higher level package - but so what?

You can't be afraid of attracting low life's who are only seeking free stuff.  That's where I came from. But now I'm at the Scholars Library (L4) level, even though it took some years for me to get there.

The way it started for me was that I was actually given a low cost Logos 3 package (The Norman Geisler Apologetics Library) several years ago, and it sat, basically unused, on my PC for a long time. 

Oh, every once in a while I'd open it up and try to use it but it was difficult to learnSo, many things to remember to make the Logos 3 program work.  It wasn't just intuitive.  There was a lot of configuring to do before hand.  You couldn't just sit down and start using it to study the Bible.  At least I couldn't.  So every once in a while I'd watch a video of how to use some feature in L3 and each time I did I learned something new and began to use it more and more.

Then I bought the e-Bible package called The Ultimate Bible Reference Library ($20.00 if I remember correctly), and began to use Logos 3 even more.  And now I use the L4 Scholars package.

So, if you really want to grow Logos, you have to increase sales - along those lines, my thoughts are these:

  • Advertising - more people need to hear about Logos 4.  I know several who have never even heard of Logos.  Not sure it was such a good idea to remove Logos from the retail market (i.e.; Christian book stores) - at least people were aware that there was a Bible study program called Logos.
  • Make an entry level package (free or very low cost).  Right now it is cost prohibitive for many people I know - hence the use of e-Sword and The WORD.  Like it or not, these free programs are part of your competition.  In my experience, I have found that people are hesitant to shell out several hundred dollars without being able to actually "test drive" the software first and see what it can do.
  • Make purchasing new (additional) resources less expensive - especially those that are in the public domain already.  Why should people buy them at a premium price when they can have them for free in some of the free Bible software programs out there?
  • Include the ability to purchase more resources from within the program (and make it very easy to find and use)
  • Make the L4 program even easier (beyond just the Home page) for new users (without dumbing down the product) - include some default entry level layouts so new users can just type in a topic or passage and go.
  • Make Logos books available to be read on e-book readers like Kindle and the Sony eBook Reader - this is what people want, and it's only going to increase in the future.

 

 

Posts 269
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 11:31 AM

JimVanSchoonhoven:
our purpose is to lead others to Christ, and then to keep pointing them back to Him.  We desire to get them into the Word and trust Him to change their lives as He has ours!

Yes.  I quite agree.  We just catch 'em.  He cleans 'em!

Posts 221
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 1:55 PM

Most of my friends and colleagues could be described as computer geeks (could whip up web sites in minutes writing raw HTML, work in programming or  IT support, advise people, have long technical discussions with Microsoft staff, software purchasers with large budgets and generally spend many hours staying on top of their field) and they are mostly all Bible-believing Christians.

BUT most of them, technically savvy Christians, have never heard of Logos (or those that have are under the impression that it is expensive). I want to ask WHY is that?. They have all heard of e-sword and commonly talk about Quickverse (yes I know...), but don't have much of a clue of the existence or the unique selling points of Logos. WHY?

I wonder if you carried out a survey of every Church-goer to "Name some Bible Software and tell me some of it's features" where you think Logos would rank?

(PS I'm not suggesting you actually do this).

  • Do people even know about Logos? If not, why not?
  • If they do, WHAT do they know about it? How did they get these impressions?
  • How can you correct misconceptions?

 

Get Logos 4 out into every seminary, bible-school with free scholar's libraries (or equiv) to pastors, students. It's amazing the power of a Pastor's recommendation to his congregation!!

 

James

PS PLEEEEEEEASE update notes - there has just been posted YET another thread about the lamentable state of them! Perhaps then I can recommend Logos to my techie friends!

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 2:36 PM

This topic piqued my iinterest from the start,, but i am have not been able to read thru it all yet..  forgive me if i am rehashing.

have beth moore or kay arthur do simulcast studies with logos software.  tie it in to Bible Study magazine on going feature.  Broadcast on you tube.  Offer discounts to all entrants.  if they complete course give them upgrade discounts to next level.

Just flinging a few ideas out there.  my wife doesn't touch Logos.  thinks it is too complicated or cerebral.  but she loves those women.  and study.   that might be a bridge to many more logos users.  make it simple, practical, and pleasing to the eye.  I am telling you, think visually, too.  it matters not to many tech people or academicians, but it sure does artistic people and women.  persoonalize. 

run bible studies interfaced with facebook.  think how many moms are on that?

this is just brainstormin', folks. 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 2:53 PM

James Hudson, you make a point that I did not cover, when I made the jump from free resources like the Online bible, The Sword Project, and E-Sword, to Logos, I did not go directly to Logos, I went to many other products including the one you mentioned first, and part of the reason why did was, I did not know the difference in features offered by Logos, and in many cases the other brands had huge sales on packages that I could afford to buy and try out just to get the copyrighted resource.  My first contact with Libronix did not come from buying a Logos package, but rather one of Nelson's eBible packages at a huge discount.

I still buy many other cheap packaged programs, because I want to see what they are offering and since I try to teach believers how to use bible software, I run into many different programs and I have to know what is going on in order to teach them about the software they are using.

Many people that have these other softwares have no idea how much difference there is between their program and Logos. They bought the program they had because of the lower price and to get copyrighted books or bibles.  However even if there was a Logos program at the same price these people would still not have known there was a real difference and many would have bought what ever their friends had.

So education is still the answer to Logos selling bigger and better products.

I have ended up with Logos because I learned it was better through the school of hard knocks, I have also learned that in many cases when you compare the same level of package in the other brands to Logos, that Logos is the better buy, but for many that does not matter because the buy in price is to high and they don't know the difference in the software anyway. Hey they wouldn't put 899.00 down for Logos or another brand, they don't know the value in either.

i believe the way to reach and teach these people is through the local church rather than seminary.  Focus on the guy they already know and count on, teach Him how to teach them to use these programs, teach Him the value in electronic bible study.  Call Him Pastor or Elder, if you get his attention the rest of the body will hear about.  Seminary and bible schools are also good natural markats, but I think you will miss something just going to them.

The whole body has to see the need to study the Word of God!

Dan I just saw some of your ideas they are great ideas!

In Christ,

Jim

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 4:08 PM

JimVanSchoonhoven:

i believe the way to reach and teach these people is through the local church rather than seminary.  Focus on the guy they already know and count on, teach Him how to teach them to use these programs, teach Him the value in electronic bible study.  Call Him Pastor or Elder, if you get his attention the rest of the body will hear about.  Seminary and bible schools are also good natural markats, but I think you will miss something just going to them.

The whole body has to see the need to study the Word of God!

Dan I just saw some of your ideas they are great ideas!

In Christ,

Jim

i think the local church would be a key way to go.  employing it for leader training. 

i went to logos solely because of resources.  series x.  i thought they had a killer lineup, compared to what others had at that time.  the softward was so-so, but i was enamored with the pop up and having alll thosee books on a machine.

but most people are not library hounds like me.  They want a few good resources and a program that is easy to use.  and they need aa reason to use it.  they need to be shown it.  for some of the guys in my church, having a quality dictionary or two, quality maps and illustrations/media, and being able to put it all on a (easily made) handout would help.  combine handouts with something like lesson maker.

to boot, mmake the ipod/pad/portable reader really cool..  on another thread, theey talkeed of thee (sry, crapppy keyboard) cool reading interface.  i think that would help your less than hardcore bible sstudents want to get into logos.  partner with publisherrs, ggetting current ebooks.  that could get people in thedoor.

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Richard Koons | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 5:39 PM

Ok here is my input as a senior .net developer  currently a disabled vet probably a year or two away from entering back into the workforce. It pains me to say that I don't think adding loads of new developers will solve anything. It really relies on two areas architecture, and advisors that is where you can improve a bit in this market. What I would suggest is taking a look at your base packages and improve there in the area of ease of use etc.

I also think it would be wise to consider consulting with the various denominations and theological backgrounds to identify the best commentaries of each or might I say the most recommended from each come up with a strategy to bundle these in your base packages to improve the well roundness of each package ( I find that the main definciency with your product is not enough commentaries come with your base packages) Now for the positive your language ref material is super to say the least, historical background works awesome as well as your graphics illustrations maps charts these are excellent keep up the good work there now all you need is to concentrate on beefing up the theology portion and clear sailing ahead. Also target the average user not the just the seminary students or pastors there are a growing number on non denominational traditionalists out here kepp that in mind. Kudos for logos 4 gold I love it and won't dwell on the bugs because of self condemnation on my developed software (joking plus try as we might MS owns that dep)

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 6:12 PM

Who's afraid of freebie-loaders?  So what if they want free things.  I do. I download a free audio book from a christian company because they offer it.  I never would have heard of them had they not offered a free resource on a preaching site.

For the last 4 years or so, I have downloaded one free book, faithfully, every month.  I have not purchased that much.  Maybe 80 dollars worth. that is not a lot, and far less then I have downloaded.  BUT, I have purchased from them.  I have told other people about them.  And had i a sense that I could listen to a lot more audiobooks than I currently do, I would buy more frequently than I am right now. 

The problem is not with the freebies.  The problem is the felt need, usability, and the follow up.  Stein's point was that he was a freeloader until he got more of a sense of the program's functionality and use to HIM.  Then he steadily upgraded.

I would like to get more poeple started in Logos at my church.  they won't for 250.  Maybe 80.  or 100.  But even if it was near free, IF it was tied to something to make the experience come alive, and STICK, they would use it.

that is one reason i suggested coordination with a well known Bible teacher.  Have the study based on Logos use and resources.  The name would draw in people.  The knowledge and ability of that teacher would fill in where local guys might not have the courage or know how, and certainly not the draw.

Once people get the fever, and believe they can do it, they get excited, use it more and PURCHASE.

One of the abilities I appreciate about Morris P. is getting people to believe that even the simplest Logos functions are "that cool" and "that simple" and that time spent in Logos (God's Word) will ROCK your world! 

 

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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