Indexing on every program start in A11

Page 1 of 2 (27 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 26 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:21 AM

Is anyone else experiencing this issue with A11: Every time I open L4(A11) the program indexes. I've tested it at least 15+ times over multiple days. I've tried the "rebuild index" command multiple times, and A11 still indexes every time I open it. Previous alphas did not do this....

I know there have been some resource updates the past few days (i.e. the mysterious and frustrating Tyndale Commentaries download, for one: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/9817/77740.aspx), but I don't think there have been updates every day this past week.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:27 AM

Three things:

1. How long does the indexing last? Is it a few minutes, or a full blown I am going to tie you up for days?

2. Do you let it finish?

3. The indexer.log might be helpful in this case.

 

 

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:30 AM

1. Short ones. in fact, the estimated time usually starts at 3hr 20ms, but it takes only about 10-15 min. to finish.

2. Yes.

3. Where is this file?

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:36 AM

Laurence O'Donnell:
3. Where is this file?

Joe has thoughtfully created a video to detail the entire process of submitting log files.

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6731.aspx

 

 

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:33 AM

Laurence O'Donnell:
1. Short ones. in fact, the estimated time usually starts at 3hr 20ms, but it takes only about 10-15 min. to finish.
The L4 indexer will autostart and run as it is needed.  When it says it is indexing resources, does not mean it is reindexing the entire library every time, just doing some maintenance, checking the servers, etc...  Unless the indexing is trying to do a 5 hour index every time, I would not be concerned and assume the behavior is normal.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 230
Tim | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 3:41 PM

I have something similar happening, although mine is indexing on reboots. So far 4 reboots and every time it comes up. It is the same as above though, anticipating 3-5 hours and then finishing in 15-30 minutes. The odd thing is that I don't even open L4 (A11) for this to happen. 

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 7:53 PM

Tim,

The indexer is set to run 1) When you log in and 2) When you start the app. The Windows version does something similar so that if you have resource updates, they can be there before you open the app if necessary.

If you can post your Indexer.log we can take a look and see why it thinks it needs to index.

 

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 7:15 AM

I am still experiencing the issue I described above: indexing on every program open, etc.

Here are my logs:

[View:http://community.logos.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/75/2438.Archive.zip:550:0]

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2010 7:16 AM

Hmm, second try on the logs:

2548.Archive.zip

Posts 1
Christian Zorio | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2010 11:27 AM

Yes.  This is the first time this amount of indexing was done since the original alpha install.  I had some issues updating from alpha 9 to alpha 11.  It would give me an error message.  Then it went though.  Now it is currently doing a seemingly significant indexing job.  Haven't had any issue up until this point.

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2010 2:59 PM

Laurence O'Donnell:
Hmm, second try on the logs:

Laurence,

There doesn't appear to be anything out of the ordinary in these logs. Perhaps once the Logos icon disappears (then you know that indexing is finished), you can send the logs.

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 6:48 AM

I just completed a clean re-install (and re-index), and I am happy to report that the clean install of A12 does not evidence the continual indexing problem. (I'm running Snow Leopard.)

I wonder if my continual indexing problem since A11 (and similar ones reported by other users in A11-A12) were due to the fact that I have been around since A1 and have not done a clean re-install since then. I think I remember reading some release notes about A3 or A4 which said something about some erroneous indexing code was held over from the windows side in the early Mac alphas. Alternately, perhaps A11 could not handle the large Tyndale Commentaries index merger (though earlier alphas handled the Word Biblical Commentaries and Luther's Works just fine).

Anyhow, glad to be rolling again with a clean install.

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 8:07 PM

LO,

Glad you're working again. There are some app commands: Rebuild Index, Merge indexes and Rebuild bible index, I believe that will rebuild all or part of various indexes this without having to reinstall. 

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 29 2010 8:23 PM

Tom, thanks for the tip. I had tried the "rebuild index" command previously, but to no avail. I wasn't aware of the other commands. If the problem happens again I'll be sure to give the other commands a go.

Thanks for all of your help in the forums, and keep up the great work on the alphas!

Posts 2
Tyler West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 10:08 AM

Whether the indexing is happening on every start or not, it is VERY resource intensive for a 2GHz dual core with 2GB or RAM.  I am still doing my first indexing after about 12 hours and the time remaining is growing.  It varies between using 27 and 28 threads and is averaging about 75% on CPU and about 500MB on memory usage.  So for about half a day my Mac has been a paperweight.

Not that it is necessary to forewarn the risk-seeking Mac Alpha users like myself, I think it would be useful to make sure that users are aware that the indexing process (especially after install) is going to be long and you can hang up using your Mac for anything other than light applications during this time.  Some of my common apps like Safari, Firefox, iWork, etc. are almost useless while the indexing is happening.  Pretty much all other apps are sluggish.  If I could afford an 8-core Mac Pro with 32GB of RAM I would get one in a heartbeat and I wouldn't even be bothered by it.  But I expect most users are in my boat.

What would be better is an indexing process that is more resource aware and can trim itself back a little bit even though it might run longer.  For the Macs you might even just start the process with a lower priority.

I think informing the new, especially non-technical, user when the final product comes out is a must.

Tyler

 

Posts 10805
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 10:40 AM

Tyler

Welcome to L4 Mac and to this forum. We welcome your input. I just hope I don't sound harsh in my response to your comments.

TylerWest:
What would be better is an indexing process that is more resource aware and can trim itself back a little bit even though it might run longer.  For the Macs you might even just start the process with a lower priority.

Optimizing the Indexer will come much later in the development process.

TylerWest:
I think informing the new, especially non-technical, user when the final product comes out is a must.

Logos has alerts posted prominently in many places on their website, and there is a "Read This First" post at the top of this forum. 

TylerWest:
2GB or RAM

Increasing RAM would be the most cost-effective way of speeding up the process. Thankfully, it should be a one-time process.

Posts 2
Tyler West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 1:16 PM

Jack Caviness:
Optimizing the Indexer will come much later in the development process.

'Nuff said.  Exactly what is needed.  Like I said, not expecting it now.  Just would be useful for the end product.  Sounds like it will already be taken care of.  Great.

Jack Caviness:
Logos has alerts posted prominently in many places on their website, and there is a "Read This First" post at the top of this forum.

They must not be very prominent.  A search on the website concerning the indexer turned up very little information.  It appears to only be mentioned in the forums and I did read the "Read This First" post before posting.  The concern is the final product, not the Alpha.  If the optimization of the indexer in the final package plays nicer then it is a moot point.  However, if it doesn't, I don't think leaving the common user to hunt through the forums to find out why their Mac has suddenly turned into an unresponsive brick when it could be the rule rather than the exception is the right way to go about it.  If I didn't have another computer available to even get on the website to investigate it then I would have been up the creek.  Get the optimizations done and test it out on some average, middle-of-the-road Macs.  If it is still hogging resources I think a more prominent warning, like even during installation or possibly in the system requirements section, is in order.  Many ordinary Mac users aren't even going to know that it is the indexer causing the problem because they aren't going to look for it.  For them they need to be fully aware so they can really plan on not using their Mac for a long period of time after then installation.  Again, this only really applies to the finished product.  I'm not complaining about myself.  As an Alpha and eventually Beta user I'm expecting such things and am technical enough to go find out what is causing it.

Jack Caviness:
Increasing RAM would be the most cost-effective way of speeding up the process.

I'm going to have to disagree with that.  In my case it was using around 500MB give or take.  Granted that is a lot for one process but I still had a fair amount left, even with other processes, that it could use that it wasn't.  Based on what my Mac was doing it was more CPU-bound than memory-bound.  Mine was running a solid 75% average across both cores, rarely dipped below 70%, and often pegged over 90% when it could get it from the system.  That may be something to consider while continuing work on optimizing the indexer.

No offense taken at all.  We all have the same goal to make this an exceptional product.  There is no better Bible study software and I will do whatever I can to keep from having to have a Microsoft machine.  (Now if I can just talk someone into beginning development on a Linux version... ;-)

 

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:08 PM

Tyler,

TylerWest:
 If it is still hogging resources I think a more prominent warning, like even during installation or possibly in the system requirements section, is in order.

There is a notification displayed rather prominently in the Windows product currently. It's something like "Logos Bible Software is indexing. Indexing could slow down your computer. Click here to pause indexing." Unfortunately, the standard UI element they use on Windows doesn't quite have an equivalent in Mac OS X, and we haven't gotten around to coming up with something similar. The notification will be there in the final product.

TylerWest:
Jack Caviness:
Increasing RAM would be the most cost-effective way of speeding up the process.

You're both right to a point. 2 GB is about the minimum necessary to run the indexer comfortably. After that, it doesn't make much difference, it's primarily CPU and IO-bound. We've got a fix coming in Alpha 13 that will allow the indexer to use up to 4 cores if you have 4 or more cores, just like the Windows product. It won't make much difference on a dual core Macbook, but on the Mac Pros or new iMacs, indexing should be faster.

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 505
Michael Kares | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 9:40 PM

Growl is a 3rd party program that OS X apps use to display these kinds of pop ups.  I have it installed.  Apps like Firefox and Emusic Download Manager use it for download notifications.  I'm not a programmer so I have no idea how easy it would be to use with Logos.  Here is their web page: http://growl.info/

 

Hope this helps

Michael Kares

Posts 10805
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 1 2010 4:59 AM

Tom Philpot:
We've got a fix coming in Alpha 13 that will allow the indexer to use up to 4 cores if you have 4 or more cores, just like the Windows product. It won't make much difference on a dual core Macbook, but on the Mac Pros or new iMacs, indexing should be faster.

I like that. Yes

Page 1 of 2 (27 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS