No Lexham Bible Dictionary hits for "Peter" using Factbook or Search

I have the Lexham Bible Dictionary in my library, and as expected, it has information on the apostle Peter, but when looking up "Peter" (without quotes) using either the Factbook or the Basic Search, the LBD is not included in my list of library hits. Interestingly, when using the Factbook, the LBD does show up in the Community Tags section, and shows a total of 32 results, but when selecting it there, the little drop-down arrow turns and Logos displays the loading message as expected, but the message then disappears and no results are displayed.

Anyone else see this?

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JT (alabama24)

I just checked this and am not seeing the behavior you described... but I am running beta. It sounds to me like an indexing issue, but perhaps you should see if anyone else has suggestions before doing a reindex.

Graham Criddle

the LBD does show up in the Community Tags section, and shows a total of 32 results, but when selecting it there, the little drop-down arrow turns and Logos displays the loading message as expected, but the message then disappears and no results are displayed.

This is a long-standing issue which requires a server-side fix. Not sure when this is going to happen

Anyone else see this?

Like Alabama I am not seeing the general issue you reference and agree that a reindex is probably the best option.

To save rebuilding the entire index you could try the command "reindex lexham bible dictionary"

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703068#Comment_703068

Alabama & Graham,

Thanks for the quick replies. I had considered a reindex but wasn't looking forward to reindexing my entire library, so was glad to learn I could issue a reindex command on a single resource. [:D]

The LBD still doesn't show up in the Library Results section of the Factbook, but it does show up in the Dictionaries section, and it seems that's what you'd want (only showing in one section) assuming the hits would just be duplicated if the resource was displayed in multiple sections.

Using the Basics Search still has no hit results if searching on Peter as a person or topic and an overwhelming 2100+ hits if just searching on the word "Peter", but by limiting the search to just Heading text and Large text, that brings it down to 50+ hits.

Guess I'm still struggling to understand how resources are tagged by Logos for the different tools. I.e. why searching for Peter (the man, apostle, fisherman) will return results when entered in the Factbook, but not when entered using the Basic Search. It leaves me constantly wondering if the info actually available in my library is being utilized and presented to me. The incentive for building a large library is greatly diminished (in my view) if I can't be sure the tools are making the information available. [*-)]

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703098#Comment_703098

I had considered a reindex but wasn't looking forward to reindexing my entire library, so was glad to learn I could issue a reindex command on a single resource.

It is useful[Y]

The LBD still doesn't show up in the Library Results section of the Factbook, but it does show up in the Dictionaries section

So it looks as though the reindex helped

and it seems that's what you'd want (only showing in one section) assuming the hits would just be duplicated if the resource was displayed in multiple sections.

Unfortunately I don't think its that simple.

There are resources - such as HarperCollins Bible Dictionary which appear in both.

It does come down to a tagging issue.

In the Dictionaries section you will get results for resources which are tagged in the LCV - which shows that the two entries on Peter in LBB are LCV-tagged to link back to Peter

In the Library Resources section you will find hits for resources which have tags for <Person ~ Peter> and, as you note in your post, LBD doesn't return any hits here which is why you don't get any results in the Library section.

Guess I'm still struggling to understand how resources are tagged by Logos for the different tools. I.e. why searching for Peter (the man, apostle, fisherman) will return results when entered in the Factbook, but not when entered using the Basic Search

It returns results in the Dictionaries section based on LCV tagging but in the Basic Search based on "Person" tagging.

And I agree it can be difficult to understand what is going on here - and there are people who understand it much better than I do, hopefully they will expand further (or correct anything I've got wrong!)

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703100#Comment_703100

and it seems that's what you'd want (only showing in one section) assuming the hits would just be duplicated if the resource was displayed in multiple sections.

Unfortunately I don't think its that simple.

There are resources - such as HarperCollins Bible Dictionary which appear in both.

It does come down to a tagging issue.

In the Dictionaries section you will get results for resources which are tagged in the LCV - which shows that the two entries on Peter in LBB are LCV-tagged to link back to Peter

In the Library Resources section you will find hits for resources which have tags for <Person ~ Peter> and, as you note in your post, LBD doesn't return any hits here which is why you don't get any results in the Library section.

Yes, I had noticed that "some" of my resources showed up in both sections while the LBD did not, and after checking a few of those that did appear in both sections, I could see they had different hits in the Library Result section than in the Dictionary section--I didn't mention it though, because I was afraid I might muddy the waters for anyone trying to help, hence my stipulation that it makes sense for a resource to only show up in one section rather than multiple sections "if" doing so would just result in duplicating the same hits.

I think a good part of my confusion (a.k.a. frustration) is that as far as I recall, none of the articles and videos used to market Logos, point out that Logos uses different tagging methods for different tools and therefore you might enter queries resulting in zero hits for resources in your library that do in fact have info on the person, place, thing, or passage that you're researching, unless you opt in to purchasing Logos Wizardry Training Materials that provide all the nuance training you need to use the tools correctly.

As an example of this marketing approach, listen to just the first 12 seconds of the Factbook video on the marketing page for the Factbook Collection. When the video says the Factbook will give me results "across my library", I mistakenly think that it means across my entire library. And later in the video, when it says "imagine you want to get all the facts about the apostle Peter", I assume it will give me facts from all the resources in my library, not just a limited number of resources, provided they are tagged for use by the Factbook tool. Sigh...[:^)]

I'm not bashing Logos--I appreciate it and all the people who make it possible, and I'd be sad to lose it. And I have been putting in some effort to learn the product. I've watched many (maybe now it's all) of the official Logos training videos for Logos 5 & 6. I've also completed the Udemy training videos, am starting on the LearnLogos training videos, and made a pre-pub purchase of MP's two L6 training manuals. Hopefully, these will all help clear the waters that sometimes seem so muddy. I'm just expressing a frustration (but a major one) about how in spite of the learning efforts put in so far, I still find myself unable to predict very well what I will or won't get back from my queries with the tools and it leaves me feeling I'm missing information that is in my library. As it is, the results I get (or don't) too often leave me scratching my head, wondering--is it a "tagging" issue? Is it me failing to format my queries the way they need to be set up? Is it an indexing problem? Or is it some combination of the above? [:S]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703122#Comment_703122

Yes, I had noticed that "some" of my resources showed up in both sections while the LBD did not, and after checking a few of those that did appear in both sections, I could see they had different hits in the Library Result section than in the Dictionary section

The tagging for <Person xxx> is restricted to Hebrew/Greek bibles and Reverse Interlinear bibles via a dataset (Biblical Referents), but FL are also tagging images/infographics/maps and timelines for biblical <Person>, <Place>, <Thing>

Many Dictionaries are tagged for topics via another dataset (LCV) and "Peter" is a topic as well as a person. But

<Person Peter> in a Basic Search of your dictionaries gets results for Images tagged for the <Person>
"Peter" gets results in your dictionaries in the Topic section of Topic Guide and in the Dictionaries section of Factbook (LCV tagging)
"Peter" in a Basic Search of your dictionaries will return results for every occurrence of the word
<Topic Peter> in a Basic Search gets results that I find confusing as a lot of results also come from <Person Peter>

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703122#Comment_703122

I'm just expressing a frustration (but a major one) about how in spite of the learning efforts put in so far, I still find myself unable to predict very well what I will or won't get back from my queries with the tools and it leaves me feeling I'm missing information that is in my library. As it is, the results I get (or don't) too often leave me scratching my head, wondering--is it a "tagging" issue? Is it me failing to format my queries the way they need to be set up? Is it an indexing problem? Or is it some combination of the above?

Please don't automatically assume indexing problems are the cause, especially when normal searches are working. Faithlife tagging is a work in progress and they realise they need to do better as (partially) illustrated by my comments above.

Please ask more questions when necessary.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703703#Comment_703703

Yes, I had noticed that "some" of my resources showed up in both sections while the LBD did not, and after checking a few of those that did appear in both sections, I could see they had different hits in the Library Result section than in the Dictionary section

The tagging for <Person xxx> is restricted to Hebrew/Greek bibles and Reverse Interlinear bibles via a dataset (Biblical Referents), but FL are also tagging images/infographics/maps and timelines for biblical <Person>, <Place>, <Thing>

Many Dictionaries are tagged for topics via another dataset (LCV) and "Peter" is a topic as well as a person. But

<Person Peter> in a Basic Search of your dictionaries gets results for Images tagged for the <Person>

"Peter" gets results in your dictionaries in the Topic section of Topic Guide and in the Dictionaries section of Factbook (LCV tagging)

"Peter" in a Basic Search of your dictionaries will return results for every occurrence of the word

<Topic Peter> in a Basic Search gets results that I find confusing as a lot of results also come from <Person Peter>

Dave, thank you for jumping in and thanks for the examples. I'm going to attempt some searches based on the examples to get a better feel for the results they bring back. I have a few questions for you though if you have the time.

1) How do you come by this knowledge about the tagging methods, which method(s) each tool employs, and which resource types they affect?

2) Without having this knowledge, would you be able to consistently set up effective searches?

3) Your first three examples specifically refer to dictionaries. Do they apply only to dictionaries? I.e. Are dictionaries tagged in a significantly different way than encyclopedias, commentaries, monographs, and other resource types?

4) Your fourth example doesn't mention a resource type. Did you also have dictionaries in mind there?

In regard to question # 2, I have a feeling that without knowing what you know about the nuances of these various tagging methods and which tools use which methods, a person is really in the dark when it comes to evaluating whether or not his queries are effectively utilizing the information buried in his library. It seems to me that at least while getting a handle on it, that a person would be well served by a combination tagging/tool/resource-type chart to help provide him with some insight in determining how to best utilize "all" the resources in his library.

I appreciate all the query templates Logos provides, but they don't help me understand the bigger picture issues as pointed out in your examples. The bottom line is I feel like someone fishing with a net that should be limited in size only by the resources in his library. The problem is, I can see what gets hauled in, but I don't know if there could-of / should-of been more.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703745#Comment_703745

1) How do you come by this knowledge about the tagging methods, which method(s) each tool employs, and which resource types they affect?

From being involved in beta testing and asking a lot of questions! The Faithlife developers/team leaders provided more readily accessible information for Logos 6 than for Logos 5 and Logos 4 but they have now committed to documenting the where's and why-for's of datasets as resources for your Library.

They have provided Glossaries for some of the new Logos 6 data "types"

These show you the data that has been created for the dataset so you can search for them. Semantic Role searching is restricted to Clause Search.

2) Without having this knowledge, would you be able to consistently set up effective searches?

No. It can be difficult to know when a Syntax search is better than a Bible or Morph Search and very difficult to know whether Factbook is better than a Topic Guide or Everything Search (or vice-versa). When is it more effective to search for "Peter" than <Person Peter>?

3) Your first three examples specifically refer to dictionaries. Do they apply only to dictionaries? I.e. Are dictionaries tagged in a significantly different way than encyclopedias, commentaries, monographs, and other resource types?

The second only works with "dictionaries". Otherwise, I was illustrating the effect of restricting them to "dictionaries". Note that resources with "Bible Dictionary" in their title are called (Bible) Dictionaries, but Logos classify them as type:encyclopedia for searching. The Dictionaries and Topic sections mainly use encyclopedias with some concordances (type:Concordance). Encyclopaedias and concordances are almost exclusively tagged for topics but images are also tagged. The text of Bible commentaries & monographs aren't specifically tagged for anything but their images will be tagged for use in Media Search e.g. Maps or Photos on Bethlehem.

<Person xxx> searches mainly apply to Hebrew/Greek bibles and Reverse Interlinear bibles because the dataset tags pronouns and verbs that refer to the person in a particular verse.

4) Your fourth example doesn't mention a resource type. Did you also have dictionaries in mind there?

Not specifically.

In regard to question # 2, I have a feeling that without knowing what you know about the nuances of these various tagging methods and which tools use which methods, a person is really in the dark when it comes to evaluating whether or not his queries are effectively utilizing the information buried in his library. It seems to me that at least while getting a handle on it, that a person would be well served by a combination tagging/tool/resource-type chart to help provide him with some insight in determining how to best utilize "all" the resources in his library.

If you want to find resources with a certain type of tag just try a Basic Search of All Resources! If you are after topics try a Topic Guide. If you want to know about subjects like <Person Peter> use Factbook and it will direct you to Searches that will locate every mention of the name "Peter". The documentation i mentioned earlier will help you best utilise the datasets.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703834#Comment_703834

Wow, Dave--thank you so much!!! What you provided should give me something to chew on for a while.

It sure seems to me that in order to effectively use Logos, a good understanding of all these datasets and their tagging strategies, along with how they are utilized by the guides and tools, should be provided by Logos as part of their help manual and training videos. If they don't have the dollars in their training budget, I think FaithLife would be well served by moving some of their marketing dollars to their training budget. I think they'd get double use of those dollars if they did, because well trained customers who are excited about a product because they know how to leverage it, can be one of the best marketing tools available to a company.

I took a quick look at the web site from the link you provided and will definitely spend some time there browsing to see what I can glean from it. I only followed one link while at the site (the Biblical Event Navigator) and was puzzled to see it listed a resource with a price of $2.95, so I expect I'll gather a few questions as I browse through the site. At the moment, the whole thing does seem like something of a puzzle. Hopefully, sites like the one in your link will start providing pieces to the puzzle, and the dataset documentation that you said Faithlife has committed to providing will go a long way toward helping us get our hands on the rest of the pieces needed to complete the puzzle and see how the pieces all fit together.

I also took note of the "My Tags" entries displayed in your library panel. I take it these are entries you made based on the knowledge you gained from participating in the beta testing and from all the questions you've asked. I think it would be handy if FaithLife added an official library tag along those lines.

Again... thank you so much for the time you've taken to help me out. I hope others stumble across your posts because I expect they too would find them helpful.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/703882#Comment_703882

I also took note of the "My Tags" entries displayed in your library panel. I take it these are entries you made based on the knowledge you gained from participating in the beta testing

The red text are comments I added to the screenshot! But you could use a short version of them for your "My tags" i.e. where it says "Add tag" in resource Information.

I only followed one link while at the site (the Biblical Event Navigator) and was puzzled to see it listed a resource with a price of $2.95, so I expect I'll gather a few questions as I browse through the site.

That is misleading as you can't buy them individually. Look under Recommendations on the page because there are packages and crossgrades where you can get some or all of these Interactive resources. The same applies to Datasets.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/704060#Comment_704060

I also took note of the "My Tags" entries displayed in your library panel. I take it these are entries you made based on the knowledge you gained from participating in the beta testing

The red text are comments I added to the screenshot! But you could use a short version of them for your "My tags" i.e. where it says "Add tag" in resource Information.

I only followed one link while at the site (the Biblical Event Navigator) and was puzzled to see it listed a resource with a price of $2.95, so I expect I'll gather a few questions as I browse through the site.

That is misleading as you can't buy them individually. Look under Recommendations on the page because there are packages and crossgrades where you can get some or all of these Interactive resources. The same applies to Datasets.

I have the standard Gold package which I believe provides all the Logos 6 features and includes all of the datasets--just doesn't have as robust a library as the higher-end packages.

I must be on a roll though, because from the "What's New in Logos 6" web page, after selecting the Biblical Event Navigator link that goes to the page showing it as a resource with a purchase price of just $2.95, I selected the Biblical People link in the Updated Datasets section and got this. Probably the only bad link on the page. [:)]