Libronix v.4
Is it possiable to get some screen shots or some of the ideas going into v.4? Maybe you guys could ask them to do this just so we have something to carry us over until it comes out? Please 
Comments
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I would rather not see a screen shot for two reasons. (1) The more we know and see, the more we will bug the folks about getting 4.0 out the door. I would rather have a good product than a rushed product. (2) The more time they stop to respond to our requests, the longer it is going to take them to get 4.0 out the door.
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tom collinge said:
I would rather not see a screen shot for two reasons. (1) The more we know and see, the more we will bug the folks about getting 4.0 out the door. I would rather have a good product than a rushed product. (2) The more time they stop to respond to our requests, the longer it is going to take them to get 4.0 out the door.
I don't want 4.0 out the door. I want it on my computer--yesterday.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Not a problem! I can help you solve this problem... Dont look in the "beta" section of the forums!
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I want version 4.0 NOW and I want it with all the European Bibles, especially Czech ones. It can be just beta for now... [:)]
Bohuslav
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Ok, I was just hoping to get some info from Libronix on the topic not start a complaint session. Please if you wish to file a complaint about not having version 4 start a new thread, thanks.
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ChristopherSMacy said:
Please if you wish to file a complaint about not having version 4 start a new thread, thanks.
It was not complaint, it was demand [:D] ...that is, if I understand those English words properly. Anyhow, it is the 3rd language for me, so I am sorry for that.
Bohuslav
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ChristopherSMacy said:
Ok, I was just hoping to get some info from Libronix on the topic not start a complaint session. Please if you wish to file a complaint about not having version 4 start a new thread, thanks.
GROWL!
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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It's difficult to get screenshots out of the secret underground lair where development continues day and night...
We announced a Mac release date, and then failed to hit it. Now the image of Mac users outside the offices with pitchforks and torches is still burned into our memory, and we're reluctant to commit to dates. Or even the existence of future products. So...
Officially, there is no 4.0. Unofficially, it's a safe bet that after 3.x the team eventually started working on a 4.0.
But if I told you more than that, I'd have to kill you. In Christian love, of course. :-)
(And anyway, aren't surprises fun?)
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OK bob. Now focus on the swinging watch. You're getting very sleepy. Now, spill the beans. When and where?
Quick someone get the ropes and chains. I'm boiling a pot of noodles. We can beat this out of him.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
I heard from a reliable source that Libronix 4.0 will be released December 21, 2012 but will initially only be available in southern Mexico and other Maya regions.
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Chris Roberts said:
I heard from a reliable source that Libronix 4.0 will be released December 21, 2012 but will initially only be available in southern Mexico and other Maya regions.
LOL !! You've been listening to Coast to Coast too much.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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It seems probable to me that a next version wont appear until testing time with Windows 7 has occurred. Vista install with a Libronix CD that didnt have the Vista specific fixes, that was a difficult time.
Brian Whalen
http://www.mcnazarene.com
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System 3.0 works very well on Vista and a fast processor. I can't imagine it can be radically upgraded in the way that 3.0 was (of course, I waited and upgraded to 3.0 from my prehistoric ca.2000 version of Logos, so that was a shock). I look forward to some tweaks here and there, but as a self-employed writer I dread paying for the thing! I actually get more excited about new Logos books and resources than a new system, but that's just me.
I'm also a big fan of the Personal Book Builder and would love to see that move forward a bit, perhaps adding some of the functionality that regular Logos resources have (notes, better tagging, etc.). Finally, the little "cool" extracurricular things, such as RefTagger and the like, that connect Logos to the larger computer and Internet world, are very exciting to me.
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Rob Suggs said:
System 3.0 works very well on Vista and a fast processor. I can't imagine it can be radically upgraded in the way that 3.0 was (of course, I waited and upgraded to 3.0 from my prehistoric ca.2000 version of Logos, so that was a shock). I look forward to some tweaks here and there, but as a self-employed writer I dread paying for the thing! I actually get more excited about new Logos books and resources than a new system, but that's just me.
I'm also a big fan of the Personal Book Builder and would love to see that move forward a bit, perhaps adding some of the functionality that regular Logos resources have (notes, better tagging, etc.). Finally, the little "cool" extracurricular things, such as RefTagger and the like, that connect Logos to the larger computer and Internet world, are very exciting to me.
For the most part I agree here. I would, however, upgrade immediately rather than use an old version forever (almost). You seem to forget that Logos doesn't charge for the engine so there isn't a charge for the upgrade.
I agree wholeheartedly regarding the PBB. I was interested when the subject was being discussed, but when I found out about its limitations I opted out.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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It would be good to have it "runnable" on Linux from the start. From what I heard Logos is developing a .Net-based solution.
JesusChrist.ru - Russian Christian Portal, with free Bible software; Timh.ru - blog
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My understanding is that most of the staff is working on those prepubs; after all, the biggest value to Logos software is the availability of books. I wonder what people would want in Logos 4?
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A few things on my wish list for version 4:
1. Being able to customize the commentary order that shows up by book of the Bible. This would allow, for example, using an ordering from bestcommentaries.com to pull up the highest rated commentary by book.
2. Being able to print my markups directly from the texts, as opposed to through the diagramming tools.
3. While talking about markups, I'd like to be able to draw a connection line between things that are related. In my Bible, I often circle things and draw lines between them so that I can see the things that are related. An awkward work-around for me would be to insert a note with a link at a particular place, but that's a lot more time intensive than I could imagine a "connector" tool would be.
4. Being an extreme amateur at biblical languages, I'd like to be able to mouse-over the morphology information in the morphologically-tagged texts (especially the Hebrew), and be able to immediately see the definitions of the morphological taggings, rather than having to go through the exegetical study guide.
5. http://www.aireville.fsnet.co.uk/xscript/ has a "collection toolbar script" for which I would like to see built-in support . This makes opening some things much easier than going through "my library". One enhancement to this script would be to be able to alias a resource association so that I could just open "Word Biblical Commentary" and it would open the appropriate volume, if it exists, rather than having to pick a particular volume as the default and having it open.
6. I'd like the ability to insert scanned or downloaded pictures into the Sermon Builder file.
If these features are already available and I'm unaware of how to do them, please post how! Logos is certainly a very capable program now, and version 3 may have the functionality I desire.
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RobertLombardi said:
My understanding is that most of the staff is working on those prepubs
I imagine the people who write code and the people who key in books are not the same. Different skillsets.
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MikeHogue said:
4. Being an extreme amateur at biblical languages, I'd like to be able to mouse-over the morphology information in the morphologically-tagged texts (especially the Hebrew), and be able to immediately see the definitions of the morphological taggings, rather than having to go through the exegetical study guide.
Do you mean like this? [Left panel]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Wow, I like your clean version of Logos Interface. No icons, that's nice. But how you can work this way?
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Wow, I like your clean version of Logos Interface. No icons, that's nice. But how you can work this way?
Simple. Everything is under one of the headings. Just look at what is in each. All you need to do is use the <alt> + FirstLetter to get to them. Then you simply choose the function you want. For example, if I want to increase the font size in a resource I simply use <alt + v, z> and pick the size. If I want to do a Greek morphological search I enter <alt + g> and up comes the form.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:MikeHogue said:
4. Being an extreme amateur at biblical languages, I'd like to be able to mouse-over the morphology information in the morphologically-tagged texts (especially the Hebrew), and be able to immediately see the definitions of the morphological taggings, rather than having to go through the exegetical study guide.
Do you mean like this? [Left panel]
Not at all -- this mouse-over shows the morphology, but not the definitions of the morphology. Since I'm weaker on Hebrew than Greek, I'll use Hebrew as an example.
From Gen 1:1 -- assume a "qal" verb form ("created") is a mystery to me. To find out what that means, I have to open an exegetical guide on Gen 1:1 and go to the word-by-word and mouse over "qal" to see that it's an unmodified verb stem. I think there's another book in my library that also has this definition, but it would be nicer if I could somehow (information window?) pull the exegetical definitions of these morphological terms without opening a report.
In other words, it's much less helpful to merely see the morphological terms, than it would be to be able to link easily to a specific definition of those terms to learn or be reminded of what a particular term means.
Hopefully this clarifies my desires -- I appreciate you making me expound on what was not clear before.
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MikeHogue said:
Some of the Hebrew ones are more obscure at this point for me, though. For example, a "qal" (arbitrarily pulled from my Gen 1:1 -- "created") is a mystery to me. To find out what that is, I have to open an exegetical guide on Gen 1:1 and go to the word-by-word and mouse over "qal" to see that it's an unmodified verb stem. I think there's another book in my library that also has this defnition, but it would be nicer if I could somehow (information window?) pull the exegetical definitions of the morphology without opening a report.
May I suggest Futato's Beginning Biblical Hebrew ? It's quite simple in its presentation so you shouldn't have any problems with it. It will explain these terms and their significance. Confucius say, "Picture worth 1000 words
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Absolutely you may suggest it.
Given enough time to learn Hebrew, I would do just that, and do desire to someday.
That said, I'm aware of how to get the information I want, and as I mentioned before, I'm also aware that other books in my library have the information (such as Hebrew Bible Insert,, Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar, and Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, etc.) It is the extra step to find the information that could be circumvented with what I would think would be a relatively small change in implementation. While the information is there, it must be searched for rather than being readily available.
If one of Logos' goals is to make the original languages more accessible to the lay person, this would be an easy way to accomplish that goal.
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MikeHogue said:
That said, I'm aware of how to get the information I want, and as I mentioned before, I'm also aware that other books in my library have the information (such as Hebrew Bible Insert,, Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar, and Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, etc.) It is the extra step to find the information that could be circumvented with what I would think would be a relatively small change in implementation. While the information is there, it must be searched for rather than being readily available.
Since you apparently don't know any Hebrew, I would suggest that you start with Futato. In the meantime, here's another possibility. I right-clicked on the second word in Gen 1.1 (בָּרָא ) WHILE HOLDING DOWN <ctrl> and selected "Display Information." I then hovered over the word "qal" in the information window. I don't have any keylink set for Hebrew morphology so it must be automatic that it displays Michael Heiser's Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Since you apparently don't know any Hebrew, I would suggest that you start with Futato.
Thanks, George. Despite the somewhat condescending tone of your post, this was actually very helpful, and much closer to what I was looking for.
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Well George, I didn't find your tone condescending. I'd rather like to thank you for taking time from your life to help out here.
Alex.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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MikeHogue said:George Somsel said:
Since you apparently don't know any Hebrew, I would suggest that you start with Futato.
Thanks, George. Despite the somewhat condescending tone of your post, this was actually very helpful, and much closer to what I was looking for.
I'm sorry you understood it to be condescending. I was simply stating what I understood and therefore my presuppositions in suggesting this.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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v3.0f works with RC of Win 7 at leas here whe I tried it..
Remember eons ago they said they were gonna start v4 from a fresh codebase, so no rush here i would rather it took a couple of months longer to get right, than to be a live debugger as we do for other major corporations..
The other thing is the economy and recession, and although a nice shiny upgrade to Libronix v4 would be nice, it may at the current time be battling to make money if put out for sale, I dont envy Bob his difficult role in the current climate, and we just all have to pray that at the other when the economy picks up again, that Logos still exists... and is a viable entity...
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicRMahon said:
I dont envy Bob his difficult role in the current climate, and we just all have to pray that at the other when the economy picks up again, that Logos still exists... and is a viable entity...
I am not warried about the Logos business growth. It reminds me a saying we have about one of the Czech biggest businessmen in the shoe industry. They sant a sales person to some rural place in Africa to sell some shoes. After few month the man sent a letter. THere is no way I would be able to sell any shoes here. Nobody uses shoes here. Well, the company changed the sales person. After a week or two, the guy wrote a telegram to the base. "Send me more shoes, I need more shoes, nobody has any shoes here... [:)] I don't know if the story is true or not, but I like it.
As crisis grows, more and more people will turn to the BIble and they will need good Bible software and to have it their notebook, in their iPhone, in their ebook reader, and possibly even on paper. [:)]
Bohuslav
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MikeHogue: "Not at all -- this mouse-over shows the morphology, but not the definitions of the morphology. "
If you want to see the definitions of the grammatical form, you just hoover in the, for example Exegetical Guide, over the, let's say substantive, or pronoun, etc. and you get the definition in the bubble.
Bohuslav
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I can resist despite the self-revelation ... I loved my Bill the Cat tee-shirt. Should I assume it's a self-portrait?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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About number 4: You should be able to do that with v. 3.x
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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My real concern about Libronix Version 4 is not with how LOGOS will treat my investment in the software - they have always been wonderful. I have LOTS of third party resources published previous to ver 3.x that require tweaking to access with the newest version OR worse yet...won't work at all - like AMG's "Essentials". I know LOGOS does not have any obligation to support third party resources but considering Microsoft & Mac both have legacy mode support to run many older applications it would be nice for Libronix to try to be backward compatible with third party resources.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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George Somsel said:
You seem to forget that Logos doesn't charge for the engine so there isn't a charge for the upgrade.
Gadzooks, you're right. What am I thinking? I remember now that 3.0 was out a good while before I discovered it. I wasn't using logos.com back then, and was just out of touch. When I did find the new engine, I immediately downloaded it, and that led to looking into bringing my library up to date. For resources I had one of the older collections, and decided to get the newer Bible Study Library, which at the time was a real financial commitment for us. But, of course, one that I never came even close to regretting.
So, yeah! Bring on 3.0! If it's free, I'll join in the yammering and pleading.
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Maybe I worry too much but if Libronix version 4 is supposed to be new code from the ground up there is a greater chance my current third party resources won't survive.
I heavily invested in QuickVerse when they announced switching to STEP libraries only to re-purchase the same titles in the Platinum Edition in 2007. Won't do that again.
Likewise I refuse to re-purchase my extensive library in WordSearch every time they "improve" it (Remember ver 4 , then 7 then 8?)
When you compare annual subscriptions to online libaries (one such is available through LOGOS) to the costs of attaining your dream library (even at Pre-Pub prices) maybe the possession of titles starts to become a pride thing!?
It is time for another paradigm shift. Start viewing the resources as just that - RESOURCES! For what it's worth ~ this is from a guy who still has ChiWriter in spite of having NotaBene & AbiWord.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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MatthewCJones said:
It is time for another paradigm shift. Start viewing the resources as just that - RESOURCES! For what it's worth ~ this is from a guy who still has ChiWriter in spite of having NotaBene & AbiWord.
What? Not WordStar?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
You seem to forget that Logos doesn't charge for the engine so there isn't a charge for the upgrade.
Tell that to Mac users. Once a precedent is started...
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MatthewCJones said:
It is time for another paradigm shift. Start viewing the resources as just that - RESOURCES!
<!--
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-->I've been infatuated with computers
ever since I was a young lad, and my mother would tell me about her
punching and feeding cards into the mainframe at the Philadelphia
General Hospital. However it has only been in the last few years that
I have begun to make a big switch from books to electronic resources.I love books, the feel, the smell, the
sound of the pages as they are turned. To hold and read classic
works, and imagine the authors penning the words late in the evening
by candle light, there is no greater an ethereal experience. And to
pull a 100 year old Bible off of the shelf, opening the cover to read
the inscription again, allows my mind to walk through the spiritual
journey of the first owner.Never the less I am a realist, and in
ministry there is no better tool than a computer when it comes
research. What would have taken a week (or longer) to compile with
printed works, is accomplished in a few minutes with software. And
while on an intellectual level, I know that this is just the
gathering of information that could be provided by any source (even
from a “cloud”), emotionally I must console myself that I am
still possessing these resources, and have not given up ownership of
the “books” that I love to someone else.So no, while I only legally own the
license to them, I could never just consider these files on my
computer (and the ones that I desire yet to purchase) “just
resources”. While arguably this indeed could be considered a pride
thing, it none the less is how I cope.On another note, I don't think that
Logos would have had so many people put so much time into the Yale
project, if version 4 was not going to be capable of accessing the
resource.Paul
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Bob Pritchett said:
Officially, there is no 4.0. Unofficially, it's a safe bet that after 3.x the team eventually started working on a 4.0.
But if I told you more than that, I'd have to kill you. In Christian love, of course. :-)
(And anyway, aren't surprises fun?)
<!--
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-->Hi Bob,
I was wondering if you would answer a
hypothetical question. Let's just say that, for argument sake, you
owned a software company, and suppose you were talking to your R&D
team about the next version of your software. What specifically is
one feature would you ask them to add or change? Hypothetically
speaking of course.[;)]Paul
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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On the recent user survey I had to answer NO to the "Do you own a Kindle?" question.
I do plan on getting one some day if I can port titles of interest from my Libronix and other digital libraries. I really, Really, REALLY hope Version 4.0 can do this It would help me justify adding all those nifty new titles that are non-scholarly. Can you imagine the Nelson 503 title DVD available on a portable device? Going to the dentist has never been so fun!
Another feature that would be awesome is the ability to access PDF files from within LOGOS. We all know what happened to the STEP "standard", the Joshua authoring program, and the lackluster acceptance of PRADIS but I think Adobe's PDF is pretty much established. If you bundle the PDF front end within the Personal Book Builder (maybe a toolbar icon that opens another window) it would insure future viability rather than the demise of PBB. I would certainly buy the upgraded feature.Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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MatthewCJones said:
Can you imagine the Nelson 503 title DVD available on a portable device? Going to the dentist has never been so fun!
I'm glad to hear that you enjoy your visits. While I'm not one of those who dreads it, I can think of things I would rather do.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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MatthewCJones said:
Maybe I worry too much but if Libronix version 4 is supposed to be new code from the ground up there is a greater chance my current third party resources won't survive.
Making sure your resources survive upgrades is essential for us. Your faith in us is related to your faith that your investment in your digital library is safe for the long run, and it's always at the top of our list.
-- Bob
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Paul Golder said:
I was wondering if you would answer a
hypothetical question. Let's just say that, for argument sake, you
owned a software company, and suppose you were talking to your R&D
team about the next version of your software. What specifically is
one feature would you ask them to add or change? Hypothetically
speaking of course.
Hypothetically, I'd want to be able to search the whole library -- thousands of books even -- in just seconds.
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Bob Pritchett said:Paul Golder said:
I was wondering if you would answer a
hypothetical question. Let's just say that, for argument sake, you
owned a software company, and suppose you were talking to your R&D
team about the next version of your software. What specifically is
one feature would you ask them to add or change? Hypothetically
speaking of course.Hypothetically, I'd want to be able to search the whole library -- thousands of books even -- in just seconds.
Thanks for the taste [Y]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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How high on your list would be having one codebase? (For M$, Mac ... and Linux!)
I only three reasons to run Windows - Libronix, Dragon Dictate & seeing if breakage in IE means our denomination's website won't work on it. I'd love to have one less reason.
Regards,
Nigel
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Oh, some of us haven't forgotten about the curried snails. (How could we?)
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Chris Roberts said:George Somsel said:
You seem to forget that Logos doesn't charge for the engine so there isn't a charge for the upgrade.
Tell that to Mac users. Once a precedent is started...
Can anyone that jumped immediatley from Logos Library System to Libronix confirm that it was free? I thought i heard once that Libronix at the onset did cost money for a bit of time.
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Aeolus Jacobus said:Chris Roberts said:George Somsel said:
You seem to forget that Logos doesn't charge for the engine so there isn't a charge for the upgrade.
Tell that to Mac users. Once a precedent is started...
Can anyone that jumped immediatley from Logos Library System to Libronix confirm that it was free? I thought i heard once that Libronix at the onset did cost money for a bit of time.
I upgraded from 2.1 f (or was it g?) and never paid so much as a haepenny. I should probably also note since you mention the MAC version that my understanding is that they had to hire outside consultants to assist in that project whereas the Windows version was in-house. I think they might have gained some experience with the MAC since then so it is difficult to say whether they will or will not continue to charge for the MAC version. It's purely a business decision. You need to feed the bulldog.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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