[resolved] Historical Present Inconsistency

To follow up on Jack's post here, I ran a search of Historical Presents using Dr. Runge's LDGNT and comparing it with the new Grammatical Construct dataset. First the searches:

Note there are 6 verses that are different using the same text.

Now the passage list comparison:

So here are the 6 verses. Please comment as to why the two separate searches are resulting in differences? to Jack's point, the user needs to : 1. understand the dataset and 2. be able to rely on the dataset. These differences create some confusion and question accuracy of the data.

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Comments

Rick Brannan (Logos)

Hi John.

Thanks for the report. We'll look into it.

Note, however, that there isn't a form of a verb called the historical present; it is more a judgment in context (present tense occurs where it seems out of place). So I'd expect some difference of opinion. I'll make the person who did this annotation aware of this thread so he can review and reconcile/adjust as necessary.

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716203#Comment_716203

I understand the possible different interpretations. Thanks for the reply Rick.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716203#Comment_716203

Note, however, that there isn't a form of a verb called the historical present; it is more a judgment in context (present tense occurs where it seems out of place). So I'd expect some difference of opinion. I'll make the person who did this annotation aware of this thread so he can review and reconcile/adjust as necessary.

If there were 2 Baptists involved in this tagging, you could expect to have 6 different versions [:D]

Jimmy Parks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716317#Comment_716317

I ran a search and found the 9 places where the tagging was inconsistent.

There were 4 instances where the tag was missing in SBLGNT, so those places have been corrected.

The other instances were cases where the base text used for the LDGNT differs from the SBLGNT. For example, in John 21:17 the LDGNT has 3 Historical Presents all of which are λεγει, but in the SBLGNT λεγει is only used twice. In the SBLGNT, the third verb of speaking is found in the Aorist rather than the Present tense stem.

Hope this answers all of your questions.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716371#Comment_716371

We'll be getting a new build of the dataset together soon (to correct this and a previously reported issue with some Granville Sharp instances).

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716382#Comment_716382

Thanks Rick for this update.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716382#Comment_716382

We'll be getting a new build of the dataset together soon (to correct this and a previously reported issue with some Granville Sharp instances).

I believe there will be a resource update later today (Tuesday Apr 21, 2015), and that update will include a new version of this dataset. The new version should address this Historical Present issue as well as the previously mentioned Granville Sharp issue.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/716317#Comment_716317

If there were 2 Baptists involved in this tagging, you could expect to have 6 different versions

As compared to "if there were 2 Catholics involved in this tagging, they'd invite some friends over and still be discussing the 23 possibilities on Tuesday nights 5 years later ... preferably having enjoyed some great Guinness along the way". [;)]