Starter Package for a Lutheran Layman?

Here's a question for the confessional Lutherans on here.

I am a Lutheran layman looking at picking up a copy of Logos. I am looking for a suggested package to start with.

As a layman, I am interested in using the software for any Bible study I may be involved in, polemics and apologetics, learning about church history and my own personal research. In addition to the translations included, I would like to have the original languages on hand (though I don't yet understand them) and writings of faithful Christians across the centuries such as the church fathers but also more recent figures such as Walther and CS Lewis.

Too bad there is not a Lutheran starter package, so I will have to pick up volumes from CPH later. Most of the volumes Logos lists are not familiar to me and are therefore of unknown origin. I figure the Bible Study package would be a good start, but would there be any value in purchasing the Leader's or Scholar's packages instead?

A couple Lutheran pastors have mentioned to me that they started with the original languages and then added on from CPH.

I guess I am looking for a Logos buyer's guide for confessional Lutheran laity.

Thanks for the help and God bless!

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Comments

Michael Sullivan

I am a Lutheran pastor so I will try to help you. If you are interested only in solid confessional Lutheran resources with limited original language study, I would suggest doing the following:

1) get the minimal crossgrade $70 for the maps, timelines,and iPhone accessiblilty. You don't need a base pack to purchase it.

2) Get the NPH collection, or look at it and get resource you want (for example I don't know if you want all the Wisonsin Lutheran Quarterlies or Sermon Study books although I enjoy them, but you can purchase Franzmann and the People's Bible Commentary set seperating. Shaller's Biblical Christology is also out, but not on the LOGOS website yet.)

3) Get CPH's Theological Library set. The whole set will give you some good resources.

4) Optional - The Reader's edition of the Lutheran Confessions from Concordia. You will get the Book of Concord (Kolb and Tappert) with the Theological library, as well as the Triglotta in the NPH collection, but if you want a more reader friendly version with note - this is the one.

5) Optional - The Concordia Commentary series, which you can purchase as a set from Concordia Publishing House, (Logos is not selling as "set" version yet, but individual downloads).

6) Optional - Lenski's Commentary of the New Testament. This is a little heavy, but if you want something with Greek, this - by and large - a good set.

7) Optional - Luther's Works.

If you are looking for a base package that will include some good Church History and start you off with lingual studies, do the following in exactly the order I tell you before January 31st.

1) Purchase the Original Language Library for Logos 4. Download and install it.

2) Call back (same day, next day - when ever) and Upgrade to the Scholar's edition for aproximately an extra $190 more.

If you do this, you will get all the resources of the Scholar's edition and the Original Language edition for less than $25 more than you would have paid for the Scholar's edition outright. This upgrade path only works from Original Language to Scholars, and not the reverse. The reverse will cost $312 more!

These two packages will give you ample Original language material to start greek and Hebrew Studies on your own, Schaff's Church History, some descent Bible Dictionaries and a Dictionary of the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, resources on the Dogamtics of other demoninations, Edersheim material, and much more.

By the way, material like Edersheim, Schaff, etc. . . can be found for free on the internet - so if money is tight, don't feel compelled to purchase the Original Language / Scholars edition.

Those are my thoughts.

Michael

Michael Sullivan

One more thing: While I think the best value is to purchase the Original Language edition and then upgrade to the Scholar's you have to consider if it will be of value to you.

Look at the resource comparison list carefully. Realize that some resources (like Edersheim and Schaff) can be found on the internet. You have to ask yourself about your budget and what you would rather spend your money on - base packages with a lot of resources you might never use, or individual resources you will definitely use.

Having said that, as far as base packages are concerned if you have any desire to purchase the Scholars edition what so ever, spend the extra $25 and purchase the Original Language Library and then upgrade to the Scholar's

William

sullivanmp@hotmail.com">
2) Get the NPH collection

3) Get CPH's Theological Library set. The whole set will give you some good resources.

4) Optional - The Reader's edition of the Lutheran Confessions from Concordia. You will get the Book of Concord (Kolb and Tappert) with the Theological library, as well as the Triglotta in the NPH collection, but if you want a more reader friendly version with note - this is the one.

5) Optional - The Concordia Commentary series, which you can purchase as a set from Concordia Publishing House, (Logos is not selling as "set" version yet, but individual downloads).

6) Optional - Lenski's Commentary of the New Testament. This is a little heavy, but if you want something with Greek, this - by and large - a good set.

7) Optional - Luther's Works.

I want to add my two cents. I am also a Lutheran Layman. When I started with Logos many many many years ago, I did exactly as Michael prescribed. Except, I stayed with the Original Languages package for a few versions. I can not recommend highly enough the idea to purchase the NPH collection. I have not really used the sermon helps much but I would die without the Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly. I would most definately purchase the Complete Electronic Theological Library from CPH. Concerning your base packaging, I find the diversity of the books in the scholars to be nice but you get very little Languages. If you want the languages....you need to go first with Original Languages. It seems that if you upgrade thru to platinum or the higher scholars you get the languages added in. This his however a more expensive proposition. With the availability of the NPH and CPH collections you get a good supporting collection. I did not get that luxury when I first started.

Michael I hope you are still listening....What is Shallers book? I don't recognize the title. Is the Concordia Commentary comparable to the People's Bible? I was considering the Lenski set....Tell me some more about it....please. .

Dan Sheppard

Michael I hope you are still listening....What is Shallers book? I don't recognize the title. Is the Concordia Commentary comparable to the People's Bible? I was considering the Lenski set....Tell me some more about it....please. .

Another Lutheran here - LCMS. Also a layman.

I only JUST upgraded from Leader to Scholar.

One of my first resources was the Book of Concord (Kolb, Wengert). I personally found some individual books a good way to go, if the bigger money is a bit much right now. "Christian Doctrine" by Pieper is a great one. There are books by Robert Kolb, Lenski and others.

I like the Lenski set, although it is older.

The Concordia Commentary (blue covers) IS NOT the same as the People's Bible Commentary. The PBC has some good commentary, but it is fairly basic. The C.C. is written at the seminary level, by in most cases, Ph.D.s and includes the original text (Old Testament is Hebrew; New is Greek). There are three parts to each volume. The first part is written in English, but discusses the original language thoroughly. The second part is the actual commentary part. Finally, the third is a section on "how does this relate to today?"

The book on Revelation was REALLY good and I have completed Jonah, as well. Now, I am preparing a Bible Study on the book of Daniel. I am relying heavily on the Concordia Commentary for that.

Other comments made here, were right on. In my view, one can never have too much information. But I warn you...you may become like me! I spend a lot of time studying, reading and enjoying.

A couple of other books you might consider, all available on Logos as well as the ones I mentioned previously, include:

Law and Gospel, CFW Walther
A Summary of Christian Doctrine, Kolb
Augsburg Confession (a couple of versions)
Christian Faith: a Lutheran Exposition, Kolb
Church and Ministry, CFW Walther
Concordia Trigliotta
Concordia Self-study Bible (this is the old one-the new LCMS study Bible is not out yet on digital)
Concordia: the Lutheran Confessions, Paul McCain
Loci Communes, Melanchthon
Loci Theologici, Chemnitz
Luther: a Reformer
Luther's Works (55 volumes of them)
Luther's World of Thought, Bornkamm
Martin Luther's Basic Theological Writings, ed. Timothy Lull
the Proper Distinction Between Law and Gospel, CFW Walther
A Summary of Christian Doctrine, Koehler

There are probably some I missed, but this should give you a good start. None of these are in sets that you can purchase, other than those Concordia Commentaries, Lenski, Luther volumes, or the Concordia Publishing set of the 8 volumes. Some of the titles are from those works, but some are individual titles.

Michael Sullivan

Schaller's Christology was going to be a dogmatics text book, but he died before completely everything. I do not have the Logos version yet (it is in the mail) and it has been a while since I read it for seminary (and my brain is tired from a long night) so I can't remember anything right now other than the fact that I thought it was very good at the time. Here is what the NPH website says about Schaller's Biblical Christology:

Biblical Christology

A Study in Lutheran Dogmatics

Series: NPH Electronic Library

John Schaller

This famous publication is now in Libronix CD format. Biblical Christology: A Study in Lutheran Dogmatics contains that complete text of the John Schaller classic by the same title. The 1919 book is considered by many to be a brilliant exposition of the heart of Christian faith by one of the masters. Features five exhaustive indexes and a reprint from Quartalschrift(1920) of what was to have been the next portion of Schaller's English Dogmatics. Text appears onscreen in a format similar to the printed Biblical Christology by John Schaller.

Daniel Bergquist

Greetings all! Thanks for your input.

Reading over what people here and elsewhere have said, it sounds like starting with the original languages package and then adding on the various books from the Lutheran publishing houses.

I am, however, still not quite sure about the Scholar's package. As I noted, I am not familiar with the vast majority of the stuff listed for any of the packages, they are a bit of an enigma for me at the moment. Would it give a good collection of books on studying the historical orthodox faith throughout the centuries as well as provide a cross-section study of the various less-than-orthodox splinters in Christendom? Or is there a package elsewhere that would be better suited for this purpose? Perhaps a subset of the books listed?

Thanks again!

MJ. Smith

Would it give a good collection of books on studying the historical orthodox faith throughout the centuries as well as provide a cross-section study of the various less-than-orthodox splinters in Christendom? Or is there a package elsewhere that would be better suited for this purpose? Perhaps a subset of the books listed?

All the packages are slanted towards the evangelical pastor and, with the exception of the Early Church Fathers, light on the liturgical traditions (Jewish, Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican). However, the original language materials - diagrams, apparatus, glossaries, dictionaries etc. and some of the reference dictionaries make the Scholar's package worth it. You will want to augment any base package to add the more traditional theologies.

Michael Sullivan

In the Scholar's edition there is a good introduction to Church history. Here are some of my observations

1) I just read "Exploring Church History." It is obviously way too short and has it obvious evangelical bias which comes through when dicussing the Lord's Supper in the ancient Church. (Consider this quote for example: "the writings of the Apostolic Fathers often glorified martyrdom and celibacy and stressed the importance of baptism in ways that make modern evangelicals quite uncomfortable. ") But I must say that I still enjoyed reading it and thought that it had some interesting conclusions about the modern Church in view of what has happened to Christianity through out the ages.

2) 131 Christian You Ought To Know - Again, an evagelical bent, but still insightful to get an overview of people in history

3) Schaff's History of the Church History. An older but pretty thorough set in 8 volumes. Schaff was a Presbyterian, (I think - correct me if I am wrong, somebody). I am just starting to read the set. His introduction is good to read so that you can understand his bias and world view. From what I know, it is generally considered wuite good. You can get this free on google books over the interent.

4) Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. This is a valuable resource when studying Church History - quick reference to people, theological terms, places, events, etc. . . Of course one must, as with everything, read with discernment. I like this resource and find that it had more understandable explanations that Christian Cyclopedia in some references (Christian Cyclopedia - a Lutheran resource - is available in the Concordia Theological Library set). If you want a cheaper good resource like this, McClintock and Strong's Encyclopdea and be had digitally for very little from Ages. That resource is older and very massive. I do like this dictionary though.

5) Bible Dicitonaries - The scholars edition has some good Bible dictionaries. Harper's is scene as being a very descent one for starters. Again, definitely read with discernment. A Bible dictionary wil give you time, place, and archeological insight.

6) Edersheim set - This resource is excellent for giving you insight into the Life and Times of Jesus, the Temple and Old Testament history. This set is also available free on the interent (google books). But it is very nice to have them on Logos.

7) New Testament Milleau - I have not read the resource, but is has been recommended to me for cultural insight.

8) Added infographics, Biblical Pictures, etc. . . You get limit access to the charts and pictures in the OL edition.

These are a few of the reasons I upgrade to Scholars. Again, make sure - if you are going to purchase the scholars edition - to purchase the OL edition first and upgrade to Scholar's

Michael Sullivan

A couple of other thoughts regard the Scholars edition with the OL (extra books)

1) Theological Word Book of the Old Testament - a very good, standard Hebrew resource which is not included in OL.

2) Vincent Word Studies and Robertson's Word Pictures. Again, read with discernment, but these are very good reasource on New Testament words.

3) Treasury of Scripture Knowledge - this is a great cross reference tool. why this is not included in the OL package is beyond me. Every basic package I have seen of every company has it, except Logos in the OL edition. (Notice that it is even in Logos' home edition!)

4) Timelines - These are not included in the OL edition. The can be helpful.

5) Certain Charts, and graphs, etc. . .are not included in OL, and can be very helpful.